NEED help to diagnose the issue

Freddy Diagnostician Australia Posted   Latest  
Resolved
Driveability
2012 Mazda CX-7 Grand Touring 2.3L (3 MZR) 6-spd
U0452 — Invalid Data Received From Restraints Control Module
C0063 — Yaw Rate Sensor
U0415 — Invalid Data Received From Anti-Lock Brake System (ABS) Control Module
C1001
Losing Power
Surge

Dear all diagnostic tecnicians,

I'm writing this post to ask if anyone can help me to rectify this issue as below.

Vehicle: MY12 Mazda CX5 Diesel 2.2L 4WD Auto

Country: Australia

Symptom sequence: 

>> Need to drive the vehicle about 30 min" and stop & leave the vehicle about 5 min' with the engine running and the engine will jerk, the acceleration will have no responce and eventually, the engine will stall as take off

>>the engine will start straight way with one go after stalling and there is no DTC at the time of event

>>the issue will not happen if drive without stopping

>>one day the ABS,DSC(Dynamic Stability Control) TPMS warning lights came on and all TDCs as below triggered

ECUDTC CODEDTC DescriptionSTATUS
ABSU0452Abnormal message from SAS control moduleCurrent
AirbagC0063Yaw rate sensor in SAS control moduleCurrent
TPMSU0452Abnormal message from SAS control moduleCurrent
EPSU0415Signal error from DSC HU/CMCurrent
Forward sensing cameraU0415Invalid data received from ABS control moduleCurrent
C1001 Vision system cameraCurrent

>>if drive with the air bag control module disconnected, the issue is not occuring any more and confirm this a couple of times because I have came across the faulty YAW rate sensor signal can tirbute power limits as TCS or DCS will request power/torque limit to ECU if there is excessive YAW rate signal present (the YAW rate sensor is in the air bag control module) 

>>found also,the engien rpm become unstable(it looks like minor misfire) before the symptom (stalling) occurs but the engine runs perfect with the air bag module disconnected

>>replaced & coded the air bag control module and calibrated the YAW rate sensor from Mazda dealer but the issue is still present

>>suspect the ABS module is causing the issue but can't see any torque limit request from ABS module at the time of event

>>I don't think it's engine or fuel related issue because it will start straight way after stalling and the fuel data(measured & command) are corresponding at the time of event and also there is no issue if drive with the air bag control module disconnected

>>the YAW rate sensor signal at stand still looks too excessive to me 

Parts replaced: Air bag control module, MAP/Boost pressure sensor, fule filter

Thank you in advance and God bless you all,

Regards,

Freddy …

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Danh Diagnostician
Viet Nam
Danh
 

Do you think the ECU is bad?

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Freddy Diagnostician
Australia
Freddy
 

Thank you Danh, may be but not sure and I need evidence to change any parts from now on. Freddy

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Dmitriy Analyst
Ontario
Dmitriy
 

Does the Airbag Control Module have good powers and grounds At All Times (confirmed with lengthy oscilloscope capture)?

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Freddy Diagnostician
Australia
Freddy
 

Hi Dmitriy, I didn't confirm the powers & grounds with oscilloscope but did confirm it has good powers & grounds with voltage drop at the time of event. Freddt

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Jesse Engineer
Missouri
Jesse
 

Sounds like you have a common problem causing all of the issues. Some things just won't pick up on a scan tool or set a code. Like low fuel pressure or a failed pump. I'm thinking you have a power/ground issue or a bad battery not up to full charge. Maybe a bad cell dragging it down. Could just be a bad connection at the battery or fuse box. These modern cars computers are very sensitive to…

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Matthew Diagnostician
Kentucky
Matthew
 

Is it possible to monitor all relative dat, load , tps, all relevant commands to control idle and throttle, find out first what is being commanded to shut off then read service data on fault setting criteria and action taken.

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Freddy Diagnostician
Australia
Freddy
   

Thank you for your input Matthew, I did have a look all data at the time of event like you said but can't see any abnormal data. The sanp on tool(Modis edge) doen't give much information like factory scan tool and wish to have flight record feature in it. Freddy

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Freddy Diagnostician
Australia
Freddy
 

Hi Jesse, thank you for your input. will keep in mind that but it's not fuel related issue as it starting straight way after stalling. The vehicle has a denso fuel system which has no low pressure fuel pump in the tank but using a suction pump in the high pressure fuel pump. If this vehicle has fuel starving issue, it won't start straight way after stalling and further more no issue at…

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Jesse Engineer
Missouri
Jesse
 

I'm not saying it is fuel related. I'm saying that there is a common issue somewhere in the system linking everything together. One bad sensor or module/computer can cause other issues not related. Unplugging one at a time, if possible, is a good test. I was thinking about you saying that there was no throttle after sitting running for 5 minutes while in the store. I'm wondering if a weak…

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Freddy Diagnostician
Australia
Freddy
 

Thank you Jesse for your input, Yes, I agreed with you. Something which is not related to engine is contributing the issue to cause engine performance issue and I think the ABS module is possible the cause of the problem but can't drive with ABS module disconnected as it will lose power steering assisst. The vehicle starts straight way with one go/no delay/no weak cranking after stalling, so I…

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Freddy Diagnostician
Australia
Freddy
 

Hi Jesse, thank you for your input. I will keep in mind that but it's not fuel related issue as it starting straight way after stalling. The vehicle has a denso fuel system which has no low pressure fuel pump in the tank but using a suction pump in the high pressure fuel pump. If this vehicle has fuel starving issue, it won't start straight way after stalling and further more no issue at…

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Kyle Mechanic
Illinois
Kyle
 

Which module (s) are storing the codes?

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Freddy Diagnostician
Australia
Freddy
 

Hi Kyle, Thank you for your reply. Please see the table in the post. Freddy

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Glenn Owner/Technician
Texas
Glenn
 

Hello Freddy, Judging from the multiple U codes and problem will not occur with the airbag module disconnected, I suspect the com lines going to the airbag module are pinched or damaged somehow. Check for any recent repair history or aftermarket devices added to the vehicle. The system strategy of many manufacturers is to disable engine and transmission components during a collision event…

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Freddy Diagnostician
Australia
Freddy
 

Hi Glenn, Thank you for your reply. The yaw rate sensor related issue is not occuring any more after replacing airbag control module and the stalling issue is not occuiring with auto idle stop function activated. The front sensing camera or sensos not damaged and couldn't find any smash repair evidence. The issue is not occuring any more after driving 400kms and decided to realease the…

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Danh Diagnostician
Viet Nam
Danh
 

Hi Freddy, Anything new with the Mazda? did you solve the problem yet?

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Freddy Diagnostician
Australia
Freddy
 

Hi Danh, May be becsue the issue is not occuring any more after changing the air bag control module and ABS module. It's hard call and don't like fix like this. Regards, Freddy

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Thanks
Freddy Diagnostician
Australia
Freddy Resolution
 

The issue is not occuring after driving about 400kms with new airbag control module & ABS control module replaced but not sure it fixed the issue. Also the issue is not occuring if the auto idle stop activated(it is default) Regards, Freddy

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Glenn Owner/Technician
Texas
Glenn
 

Hi Freddy, I understand how you feel. I think it might help if you look up a subject called Air Bag Systems and Vehicle Kinematics. In modern vehicle, “systems” are not stand-alone operations. The modern safety systems like air bags, ABS, steering along with the engine and transmission functions all communicate on CAN bus systems. If one has an issue the others are alerted and often react to…

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Glenn Owner/Technician
Texas
Glenn
 

Hi Freddy, I forgot to mention to check the K line data also. This is where much of the Air bag system communicates. Here is a brief CAN sheet with DLC pin identifications: OBD_II_Specifications_and_Connections​.​pdf (esatinc​.​ca)

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