'17 Chevy Traverse Crank No Start

Lesage Technician Dearborn Heights, Michigan Posted   Latest   Edited  
Question
Driveability
2017 Chevrolet Traverse Premier 3.6L (D LLT) 6-spd (6T75)—1GNKVJKD1HJ232071
P0137 - O2 Sensor Circuit Low Voltage Bank 1 Sensor 2
P0157 - O2 Sensor Circuit Low Voltage Bank 2 Sensor 2
P018B - Fuel Pressure Sensor "B" Circuit Range/Performance
P0151 - O2 Sensor Circuit Low Voltage Bank 2 Sensor 1
P0300 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
P2635 - Fuel Pump "A" Low Flow/Performance

Hi everyone. 

Owner says vehicle died while idling at McDonald. Started and died again but wouldn't start since. 

FF for P018B shows open loop status, 87.7% engine load, ECT 213 deg, FPS is low at 20.45 psi, FRP low at 58.02 psi, fuel level at 31.8%. Fuel pump runs when commanded on by scanner and with KOEO. No FF for P2635.

Live data with KOEO shows about the same pressure numbers as in the freeze frame. Desired fuel pressure @ 72.66psi, FRP @ around 2 psi. Found a TSB about potential lying fuel level sender but couldn't locate connector x350 mentioned in the the TSB to ohm FLS. I was able to ramp FP speeds up to 100% and it was spinning faster. 

I got the vehicle to start while having the right rear jacked up, but it died immediately. I think either gauge is lying and fuel is too low or there is a restriction at the pickup between the primary and the secondary inside the tank. So i think it's time to drop the tank. What do you guys think?

Edit: It's a AWD model wit 32k miles. Thanks

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Zachary Mobile Technician
Austin, Texas
Zachary Default
 

Lesage what you're saying makes sense based on the symptom. I haven't had a chance to research the setup on this car or any of the codes. I'll check my service info to see if I can get you an idea of where X350 is. That said, I'd add a couple gallons of gas & see if the car then starts & if the gauge as well as scan tool pids change accordingly. Just my initial thought, I'll get back…

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Lesage Technician
Dearborn Heights, Michigan
Lesage Default
 

Awesome Zachary, i was just thinking about getting some fuel to test it. Thanks for the reply.

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Zachary Mobile Technician
Austin, Texas
Zachary Default
 

No problem sir. Happy to help.

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Mike Educator
Raleigh, North Carolina
Mike Default
 

How many amps is the pump drawing? If there is no fuel to move, then there should be a low amp draw.

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Zachary Mobile Technician
Austin, Texas
Zachary Default
 

Good point Mike. That'd be a quick non-invasive test. High rpms as well if current ramping with a scope.

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Mike Educator
Raleigh, North Carolina
Mike Default
 

Great point about the scope and pump speed. I really need to get more into scope testing and keep a notebook of normal values for things like pump speed

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Zachary Mobile Technician
Austin, Texas
Zachary Default
 

Mike I know what you mean. I'm probably somewhere between a beginner & intermediate level scope user. Lately I've been trying to use it as often as possible just to gain more experience and gather know goods. Always learning right?

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Mike Educator
Raleigh, North Carolina
Mike Default
 

Zachary, definitely always learning. That is why I really like forums like this. I help where I can and I learn where I can.

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Zachary Mobile Technician
Austin, Texas
Zachary Default
 

Agreed sir.

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Lesage Technician
Dearborn Heights, Michigan
Lesage Default
 

Thanks for the idea but I had no means to check for amp draw.

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Randy Diagnostician
Glendora, California
Randy Default
 

Do you have a dvo meter ?

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Lesage Technician
Dearborn Heights, Michigan
Lesage Default
 

Actually i just replaced a fuse on my DVOM but i didn't have it on me at the time to connect it in series in the FP circuit.

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Randy Diagnostician
Glendora, California
Randy Default
 

What brand dvom are you using ?

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Mike Educator
Raleigh, North Carolina
Mike Default
 

Most decent meters have a DC ammeter built in for up to 10 amps. You can even use an old VAT-40 or similar load tester's amp clamp. If you want more resolution make 10 coils of primary wire and zip tie them tight. Then install the wire in series in the circuit. The VAT-40 will read 10 times the circuit amperage. Or you could get an Innova 3320 for about $25 on Amazon. It isn't a great meter…

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Tyler Technician
Olathe, Kansas
Tyler Default
 

I agree with Mike, fuel pump current will answer a lot of questions about the pump and fuel level. I'd expect about one amp with a good pump and an empty tank.

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Caleb Diagnostician
Mishawaka, Indiana
Caleb Default
 

Remember the pump is controlled by the fuel pump driver module. It has constantly varying amperage due to the fact that it is pulse width modulated by the pump. If your going to current ramp the pump unplug the fuel pump driver module and jumper across the connector to bypass the module and hardwire the pump. Easy peasy done it many times. Or you could just put some gas in it lol.

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Zachary Mobile Technician
Austin, Texas
Zachary Default
 

That's a good point Caleb. I wonder if the scan tool control he used to ramp pump speed up to 100% allows for this as well. Or if it's like other PWM controlled devices where "full on" means 85% or something similar. I suppose if you had a known good waveform for cranking conditions on one of these, you may still notice a difference between current draw with & current draw without fuel. Just…

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Lesage Technician
Dearborn Heights, Michigan
Lesage Default
 

Yeah I could geek out and scope out the pump's current but I don't have an oscilloscope.

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Lesage Technician
Dearborn Heights, Michigan
Lesage Default
 

Thanks Caleb. Yeah the FPCM works similar to Ford units. Scope would be high tech for me but I don't own 1.

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Lesage Technician
Dearborn Heights, Michigan
Lesage Resolution
   

So thanks everyone for the help. I concluded that the fuel was too low by simple deduction. I was gonna go for the p2635 instead of p018b because according to code criteria p2635 runs if p018 is not set. Consequently p2635 must have set before p018b. P2635 was gonna lead me down the path of the FPCM but I abandoned that idea before even starting. Because looking at the low and high fuel pump…

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Caleb Diagnostician
Mishawaka, Indiana
Caleb Default
 

If you dont find the question offensive Lesage may I ask why you do not own a scope??

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Geoff Diagnostician
Lahaina, Hawaii
Geoff Default
 

Hi Caleb. Another good question is, why do I own four, and never need any of them?...LOL....Oh! I remember....if I get rid of them I WILL need them. That's one of "Murphy's Laws", iirc. I even just got the adapter for my Mastertech, I love the old stuff! youtube​.​com/watch?v=kdcFbO…

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Lesage Technician
Dearborn Heights, Michigan
Lesage Default
 

Not at all my friend. I'm a very small operation and couldn't afford it, but next year God willing i'll get one.

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Mike Educator
Raleigh, North Carolina
Mike Default
 

Check out the uScope from AES Wave. It is small and cheap, but a powerful tool. I think it is about $160.

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Randy Diagnostician
Glendora, California
Randy Default
 

For another 200 bucks you can get the autel 4 channel scope

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Lesage Technician
Dearborn Heights, Michigan
Lesage Default
 

How good and reliable is the Autel scope Randy. To answer your ? about the meter it's not no fancy fluke 87 or 88 but a lowly craftsman I've had for over a decade.

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Randy Diagnostician
Glendora, California
Randy Default
 

Any scope is better than no scope

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Lesage Technician
Dearborn Heights, Michigan
Lesage Default
 

I hear you. Do you own an Autel scope?

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Randy Diagnostician
Glendora, California
Randy Default
 

Yes own autel and a pico and a u scope and a old hanteck

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Lesage Technician
Dearborn Heights, Michigan
Lesage Default
 

So how does the autel compare to other ones? Is it reliable and consistent?

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Randy Diagnostician
Glendora, California
Randy Default
 

it is a descent scope for the price much better than the hanteck butt not as good as a pico . But you need start with something

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Lesage Technician
Dearborn Heights, Michigan
Lesage Default
 

Thanks

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Lesage Technician
Dearborn Heights, Michigan
Lesage Default
 

I know about the uscope. I don't like to own superfluous amount of tools. I'll wait for at least a 2-chanel.

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Geoff Diagnostician
Lahaina, Hawaii
Geoff Default
 

Great! Don't forget to edit your original post as "resolved".

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Lesage Technician
Dearborn Heights, Michigan
Lesage Default
 

ok no problem. thanks

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Tom Engineer
Claremont, California
Tom Default
 

You would need to edit your original message to be a Question instead of a Discussion. Then you can edit any replies you’ve made to your original post and set their status to “Resolution.” Or if someone else replied here with the solution, you can upvote their reply and choose the “Resolution” tag. See this for more.

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Lesage Technician
Dearborn Heights, Michigan
Lesage Default
 

Thanks Tom for breaking it down.

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