Classes in Small Groups

Michael Mobile Technician Utah Posted   Latest  

I am wondering if there would be a demand for small group theory and hands on classes lasting from 4 hours to 8 hours on-site or at a training center? The theory classes would last 1.5 to 2 hrs. and the hands on 1.5 to 2 hrs. Cars would be bugged previous to class. Attendees would have to find the bug before moving to next module. Focus would either be ASE certification (8 sessions total), Scan Tool Diagnostics, Labscope, Electrical Diagrams, Networks or EEPROM / Board Level Work. 

The thinking is that in large groups many are afraid to speak up when they do not understand concepts. In small groups, everyone can learn and participate.

Thoughts? 

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Randy Diagnostician
California
Randy Default
 

This would be a good thing . Are you heading this up ???

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Michael Mobile Technician
Utah
Michael Default
   

The cost for a small custom class would be 4x to 5x what a large session would be. (individually) It would be good to know if the project is feasible meaning would shop owners be willing to pay the rates needed to cover costs. Locally, I did some classes for a chain store. We had 3 to 4 modules and could do hands on for up to 20 techs. The managers would choose 3 top techs to run 3 hands on…

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Tony Manager
Iowa
Tony Default
 

we really like the concept of small classes but would like to find an instructor closer to st Louis to train for an on-going basis- anyone available in the St Louis, MO. area ?

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Randy Diagnostician
California
Randy Default
 

Contact trained by tecks to see who is in your area

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Mike Instructor
California
Mike Default
 

Hi Tony, I can be available. Please e-mail me at …

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Mike Technician
Missouri
Mike Default
 

Hi Tony. I just talked to Kevin Leiby. He's out of the St. Louis area. He's an instructor for CTI and Leiby Automotive Training. You can reach him at … if you interested. He's up in your area several times a year.

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Randy Diagnostician
California
Randy Default
 

Do it .... There is a market for this . If I can help let me know . …

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Mike Instructor
California
Mike Default
   

Hi Michael, There are plenty of shops out there that would be willing to do this type of training. The challenge for you would be where to find them. Let me know if I can be of help. E-mail is …

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Michael Mobile Technician
Utah
Michael Default
 

Thanks Mike

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Mike Instructor
California
Mike Default
   

Just an FYI: my hands-on classes are all two day classes. The hands-on diagnostic exercises are designed in such a way that they NEED to apply what they have learned in the lecture portion of the class in order to properly diagnose the vehicles they are working on. I only allow 12 techs per class, working on multiple vehicles during the hands-on portion. Additionally, I do not show them what to…

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Martin Instructor
British Columbia
Martin Default
 

Exactly Mike. Training comprises reference information, group discussion surrounding the use of an efficient and organized diagnostic direction with whichever tools from the arsenal will get the job done. Technicians may arrive lacking fundamental skills and other pieces of the puzzle and coaching in a timely manner, without allowing these technicians to experience frustration from being left to…

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Allan Mechanic
Alberta
Allan Default
 

Nope. You guys bugging cars are just trying to find ways to cut labor times.

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Michael Mobile Technician
Utah
Michael Default
 

That is Funny.

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Randy Diagnostician
California
Randy Default
 

Michael like

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Michael Mobile Technician
Utah
Michael Default
 

Randy, My funny comment was made for Allan.

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Randy Diagnostician
California
Randy Default
 

yes i now

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Anthony Technical Support Specialist
Pennsylvania
Anthony Default
 

Hi Al: Care to elaborate? TIA, Guido

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Randy Diagnostician
California
Randy Default
 

training

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Samuel Technician
New Jersey
Samuel Default
   

Cool

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Hans Diagnostician
Utah
Hans Default
 

Yes, but i know my shop isn’t paying for it, so 4x my normal cost isn’t going to work for me.

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Michael Mobile Technician
Utah
Michael Default
 

Hans, I don't know what to say. Your boss is a great guy. I am surprised he does not offer to pay for your classes. He used to have an on-site chef that made lunch every day. Besides you are already working at a very high level and my services are more for the aspiring technician not a veteran like yourself. You are one who I would recruit to teach the classes. -Mike

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Martin Instructor
British Columbia
Martin Default
 

Hi Mike. If I may add some comments. I would be inclined to re-word the intent of the class to remove the "bug" chasing descriptor. For many years, learners have called it "bug chasing" and decried it as poor, because their sole focus was on locating the "bug" and not utilizing the actual diagnostic process effectively . Your estimated "3-4 modules" are on par with the timeline for delivery…

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Michael Mobile Technician
Utah
Michael Default
 

Thanks Martin, I did not know that the word bug had such a bad connotation in our world. Although the intent is the same, your definition is much more professional. In the classes I led with the chain, we used labscopes, DMM, Scan Tool, Service Information and critical thinking skills to work out the inflicted problem. Having a real world problem was always good if there just happened to be…

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Randy Analyst
Colorado
Randy Default
 

I'm one of those that if you marketed it as "bugged" vehicles the students have to figure out, not only would I not go, I would advise anyone that asked not to go. I have the same opinion about presentations that are predominately "case studies". Hands on, however, is the only way most technicians can really learn (not all, just most). Unfortunately, it's the most expensive way to teach and is…

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Gary Owner/Technician
Colorado
Gary Default
 

Right on all points, Randy. The idea is to provide foundational education that can be used in a variety of applications. Bugged vehicles might be an option, but real-world failures are far more illustrative. I do believe that we need more technical education devoted to the guys who do most of the work, the "B" level technician...

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Michael Mobile Technician
Utah
Michael Default
 

Hi Randy, I hear what you are saying and agree that having an unknown for both parties is the best opportunity to learn. It does place the pressure on the instructor. Maybe the compromise is having some known problems and one unknown. This allows for a good flow of learning and gives a big challenge at the end. Even if the unknown is not solved, the students would see a process in…

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John Instructor
Pennsylvania
John Default
 

Totally agree Randy. When instructed properly the techs work on learning how to think not what to think.

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Martin Instructor
British Columbia
Martin Default
 

Hi Randy. I agree that short 3-4 hour classes can be an inhibiting factor, along with bug chasing and case studies where the "hero" presents the facts. The "WOW" factor and amazement of how our "hero" leads the class through a veritable "ballet" of perfectly choreographed diagnostics, presents little opportunity for interaction. The focus has to be on tangible skills that the student can take…

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Randy Analyst
Colorado
Randy Default
 

What you said above is so, so true, I haven't taught a class in several years. All I do now is presentations which, on occasion, I create a bug or present a case study. When I do, I tell the attendees what is wrong first. I don't make them diagnose it so the lesson becomes how to get there and what the data is telling you, the diagnostic approach, or in the case I used a week ago, disprove a…

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Samuel Technician
New Jersey
Samuel Default
   

This is a PHENOMENAL idea!!! I am a fan of any and all training! Hands on is great. The main "hands on" issue you run in to is that the groups are so big that there is not enough equipment or someone with less knowledge is peeking over shoulders....love your idea. I enjoy the idea of multiple hands on classes ( modules) or step classes related to ASE and real time industry faults! The training I…

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Bill Owner/Technician
Michigan
Bill Default
 

I really like the idea of small group training with hands on testing of vehicles!! I would absolutely expect and be willing to pay extra for such classes. Personally I have been in the industry and attanding training seminars for about the last 20 years . I have attended many great classes by some of the best trainers I often just don't make or have the time to practice the techniques learned in…

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Samuel Technician
New Jersey
Samuel Default
 

Bill you nailed it in one line for the majority of us out here...."I often just don't make or have the time to practice the techniques learned in the class". You just described, possibly 90+ percent of attendees. I do research and do practice when I can. However, after a weekend of training, Monday morning I cannot even dare myself to "practice" a technique while working. The thought of using…

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Michael Mobile Technician
Utah
Michael Default
 

Hi Samuel, In order to lock what you have learned, it may be a matter of after hours testing or weekends. My service calls have me out from about 8AM to 6PM. Every night I have "homework". I will spend 2 to 3 hours going over what I was not able to solve looking for ideas on what to do next. I ask others on forums like this one their opinions and go back the next day to try and be the hero…

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John Instructor
Pennsylvania
John Default
 

Techs don't diagnose and repair bugged or rigged cars. That's also the primary flaw of the sting cars that some TV station investigator might send around to try and see how honest the shops are. The closest I get to what you are considering is when a shop calls about a car that is giving them headaches, I go to the shop with all of my toys and help them. The process has the shop assign a tech to…

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Michael Mobile Technician
Utah
Michael Default
 

Hi John, What you are talking about would be the ideal. Having a vehicle that matches the instructional materials is what we would want. Unfortunately this is rarely available. If one utilizes the principals you laid out in your response with a bugged or rigged vehicle, then real learning would be achieved. In the classes done so far, one could see the lights come on as the technicians used…

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John Instructor
Pennsylvania
John Default
 

Technicians need to learn how to gather and analyze information with no preconceived notions. Management needs to allow them to do that even if they happen to take longer than what someone else believes is a reasonable amount of time. Which leads us right back to one of the reasons why trying to do this with "bugging" a defect leads to failure. A classic example of a bugged car was when the…

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Martin Instructor
British Columbia
Martin Default
   

Hi John. Exactly "Technicians need to learn how to gather and analyze information". This is exactly what we are doing in one of our courses right now. The connotation that finding the "bugs" is a bit more than misleading really. Years ago, that seemed to be the focus and "bug chasing" received a well-earned bad reputation as a result. However, gathering information, analyzing it and applying…

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Brian Instructor
Ohio
Brian Default
 

I think there is a demand, however educating our customers on their need is the hard part! This is exactly why I started "…" I do think that many people are afraid to speak up, sometimes due to the fact they think it will be a dumb question. I always reinforce the idea that there are no dumb questions! Small groups are great I just need to charge more to make the necessary…

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Marek Technician
Wisconsin
Marek Default
   

Why not take the class to a shop? for example if a shop has a problem vehicle that their top tech cant figure out take your teaching skills to the shop walk the top tech through your theories and real world applications and diagnose it together and let him ask all the questions he needs to understand how you guys got to the solution of the problem vehicle. I know plenty of techs that would pay…

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