Unable To Complete Monitors

Brian Owner Parma, Ohio Posted   Latest  
Updated
Driveability
2011 Ford Econoline Van 4.6L (99W) 4-spd (4R75E)

Hello all, Just checking to see if any one else has had similar problem. 39k miles on the clock.

Fleet ambulance vehicle that came to shop for SES light on due B1S1 O2 code ( I do not have code #) They replaced sensor and told their customer to drive before e check for to monitors to run.

Failed e check to to monitors not run /p1000, Tech states over 1000 miles since dtc's cleared on scan tool. . Customer states o2 monitor still did not run. They replaced all 4 o2 sensors with Ford parts. and drove a few hundred miles. This is where I came in, I read a pending p0456 very small leak, ABS c1963-20, U0073-30 other than that no codes the PCM was not at the latest calibrations so we updated. I looked up the drive cycle and test drove vehicle 24miles and did not get monitor run, note that fuel trims are all looking good. I gave shop drive cycle information and told them to follow, and they have over 150 miles on it still not run O2 monitors.

Note that the fuel level on the gauge was reading aprox 3/4 and on the IDS emission monitor page I was at 54% fuel level. Does any one know if this discrepancy is normal? I am thinking this may be our trouble. Thanks for any advice in advance!!diag​.​net/file/f3teqpu2p…diag​.​net/file/f63qvb187…

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Nick Diagnostician
Affton, Missouri
Nick Default
 

Has the KAM been cleared? I've had issues getting them to run and I clear KAM and then do a drive cycle and they run no problem.

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Randy Diagnostician
Glendora, California
Randy Default
 

I agree with nick . Do a kam reset

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Brian Owner
Parma, Ohio
Brian Default
   

I am sorry I failed to mention technician did that after 4 o2's replaced. I personally did KAM reset after pcm program before 2nd test drive

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Rick Technical Support Specialist
Saint Charles, Missouri
Rick Default
 

There are a lot of silver bullets here but we at least need to know what caliber bullet you may need. Please state the code and potential tests or data involved. Its kind of like will the bullet be fired from a hand gun or rifle?

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Bob Owner/Technician
East Longmeadow, Massachusetts
Bob Default
 

Fords usually set pretty easily as long as there is no fault blocking them from running. Do a code clear and then start the engine without turning the key off. That should put it into a fast learn mode. Then drive it about 5-10 miles with some 40mph+ drive time. If monitors won't run during that drive then there is a fault that is suspending the monitors.

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Brian Owner
Parma, Ohio
Brian Default
 

Hi Bob, I agree they usually set easily. I have done the code clear with out turning the key off, ( as stated in the drive cycle and on the IDS obd2 monitor function) multiple times. Then drive @ 48 -65 mph for more than 5 minutes no pending codes are setting, we do have what looks on the gauge a bit more than 3/4 tank and the IDS obd2 monitor page shows the fuel level to be within the…

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Rick Educator
Concord, California
Rick Default
 

Brian, Connect scan tool. clear the memory, but do not turn the key off, and go drive the vehicle.

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Brian Instructor
Parma, Ohio
Brian Default
 

Thanks for the reply, I had done that with IDS , multiple times, vehicle had been sent to the dealer, so far they I have heard that the dealer hung a pcm no change.

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Anthony Technical Support Specialist
Kirkwood, Pennsylvania
Anthony Default
 

Hi Brian: Unless I'm missing it, I don't see where you mentioned what monitors aren't running. If I was to venture a guess, it would be the Cat because it is suspended when a P0456 is there. Then again, the EONV monitor should be suspended with the CAN Link code. Logic dictates the the CAN link had to have come last. Take a look at Ford's Enable Criteria. It's helpful to remember that the…

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Brian Owner
Parma, Ohio
Brian Default
 

Sorry! The 2 o2 sensor monitors along with the Cat monitor are not running.

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Nick Diagnostician
Affton, Missouri
Nick Default
 

Have you looked at mode 6 data? If they are close to the max threshold they wont complete

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Brian Owner
Parma, Ohio
Brian Default
 

I took a glance at the mode 6 data, nothing jumped out. Next week after a drive cycle I will look very close at the data, It would be great if what I am missing is there staring me in the face! Thanks for the advice.

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Anthony Technical Support Specialist
Kirkwood, Pennsylvania
Anthony Default
 

Hi Brian: The Cat monitor won't run if the HO2S response test isn't complete. (There's your chicken vs. egg.) In …e you've not looked at this.... fordservicecontent​.​com/ford_content/c…​.​pdf HTH, Guido

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Brian Owner
Parma, Ohio
Brian Default
 

Thank you , yes we are hung up on getting the o2 monitors to run. To pass e check in Ohio most (at least a few years ago, not sure if this still works) we would just make sure 02 monitors run and pass , (usually a less than a few miles) then hit the highway and most time we could get the Cat monitor to run and be on our way.

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Anthony Technical Support Specialist
Kirkwood, Pennsylvania
Anthony Default
 

Hi Brian: Perhaps you may wish to look at Pages 91-93. HTH, Guido

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Bob Owner/Technician
East Longmeadow, Massachusetts
Bob Default
 

If it's just the o2 monitors hanging you up, try this. Take it somewhere where you can do some wot runs. I have had success getting a stubborn o2 monitor to complete by going wot 2 or 3 times. Let it shift to second gear at least, then stop and repeat. I have got some stubborn mazdas and Mitsubishi to complete the o2 mon by doing this.

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Curt Owner/Technician
Phoenix, Arizona
Curt Default
 

Make sure the PCM has constant power with key off. Especially an ambulance, they tend to have strange things done to the fuse box during the conversion. If the PCM does not keep it's memory from the first trip it will only run 1 trip monitors.

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Brian Owner
Parma, Ohio
Brian Default
 

We will check this.

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Scott Owner/Technician
Claremont, California
Scott Default
 

Hi Brian, Did you try running the IDS aid? I just ran most all of the monitors with the exception of the EVAP on the vehicle I posted about this morning using that method. Took approximately 35 minutes.

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Brian Owner
Parma, Ohio
Brian Default
 

Hi Scott, I was using the same IDS function while test driving. I never had the need to use this function until this vehicle. It seems to be a good function and tells you what you need to do.

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Brian Owner
Parma, Ohio
Brian Default
 

Here is where they are at after a few hundred more miles, going to try again!diag​.​net/file/f1qojbe6v…

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Paul Mechanic
Harvey, Illinois
Paul Default
 

I would assume since it set a code, that the Kam is being maintained. Has temperature, coolant, be monitored and found to be maintaining operating temp? Fill fuel tank to block EVAP from running, clear codes and do not cycle key off and begin to drive and see what happens. Fords set pretty fast when everything is working right. Mode 6 may give you some insight if my suggested test drive does not…

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Brian Owner
Parma, Ohio
Brian Default
 

It had the Evap code pending when I had arrived, after a few hundred miles that or other codes have not set pending or current. Yes paying attention to IAT and ECT the IDS monitor function displays those values as performing the process, and yes we have been leaving the key on after clearing. I will take a closer look at the mode 6 data and see if a clue is there, something is not right with…

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Paul Mobile Technician
Salem, Massachusetts
Paul Default
 

Brian, I've had wheelchair vans that wouldn't run monitors because the PTO data pid indicated "on". There may be something wired into the pcm that is triggering it. On the wheelchair vans I've found the 'idle up" switch on. This won't create a high idle condition as it only increases idle with the e-brake applied and cancels when service brake applied, but the switch will still have input PTO…

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Brian Owner
Parma, Ohio
Brian Default
 

I looked around in engine data and no PTO PID is listed, also checked in programmable parameters I do not see it there, Thanks for the advice!

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Chris Technician
Matawan, New Jersey
Chris Default
 

Take a look at Fuel tank pressure make sure it isnt out of range or too high. I have had couple Vic’s that wouldn’t even run o2 monitors cause pressure reading was too high. FTP sensor was stuck high but never threw codes . Evap Monitor never ran cause o2 monitor had to come first .

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Brian Owner
Parma, Ohio
Brian Default
 

FTP is about 2.5 volts koeo 0 Pa , here is screen shot running ..diag​.​net/file/fgr7qzv35…

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Brian Owner
Parma, Ohio
Brian Update
   

here is update, arrived to vehicle no codes, besides p1000, all monitors have run except 02's VERY interesting to me that the CAT has run and passed!!??,diag​.​net/file/f3ysw1riv… here is mode 6 data before start up diag​.​net/file/f3p3ojskt…diag​.​net/file/f5ubmt80h…diag​.​net/file/f4hdtmsc7… I do not see anything to far out. checked FTP and it is good, diag​.​net/file/fmcc9fb3m… I do not…

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Randy Analyst
Denver, Colorado
Randy Default
 

The o2 monitors are running, except for 1. Do a moderate acceleration to get rear O2 high and then do a decel fuel cut. That's the only monitor not complete. Do this a few times but make sure it goes high first. Once this monitor completes, your readiness flag will change to complete. If rear O2 won't go high, find out why. As far as the cat completing first, why would that bother you? This…

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Brian Owner
Parma, Ohio
Brian Default
 

Hi Randy, As far as the the CAT passing first I suppose I have not payed enough attention in the past. I have been called many times before for other vehicles and the 02s run and pass but not the CAT so that us just my experience or lack of. On last drive we did a full stop to 65 then decel ( no brake ) to 40, then back to 60 4 times good ( nice steady throttle) note we attempted a few other…

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Anthony Technical Support Specialist
Kirkwood, Pennsylvania
Anthony Default
 

Hi Brian: It appears that you may be conflating the monitor grouping with the individual tests. The UEGO response test ran. That's why the Cat monitor ran. If it didn't, it wouldn't. Ford tells you what it takes to run the monitor tests. Since you're having difficulty, I have to believe that you haven't read pages 101-106. BTW, the only times that I'll voluntarily reset KAM is is fuel trims…

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Bob Owner/Technician
East Longmeadow, Massachusetts
Bob Default
 

This was basically my suggestion. He needs to do a few wot runs. Let it tach up through 2nd gear and then decelerate. I get stubborn o2's to run with that method many times.

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Brian Owner
Parma, Ohio
Brian Default
 

Thanks everyone, vehicle was out working for a bit and I was busy with class as well. I should be able to try this 10/1/19 will post with some more information. I am wondering if we are babying this thing to much, as you all are stating, hopefully "normal" driving will pop a code, run monitor or give some direction!

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Paul Mechanic
Harvey, Illinois
Paul Default
 

Are you letting engine cool before each attempt? I have had difficulty lately on late model GM's setting O2 monitors and read somewhere that they require a warm start. What if you installed a known bad O2 and see if pcm picks it out? I know when cat monitors don't set right away, the pcm is seeing it on the threshold of pass/fail and it takes multiple tests to finally make a decision. Just…

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Brian Owner
Parma, Ohio
Brian Default
 

Then vehicle has been cold soaked each night, and then ran / driven each morning for 1-2 hours, then sits till lunch and they driven again randomly throughout the afternoon getting lunch and parts etc. I am assuming something is right on the threshold of setting a dtc for something. I know I am missing something!

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Chris Technician
Matawan, New Jersey
Chris Default
 

Look at mode 6 data again .On both monitor screen shots you posted the Evap purge flow line blocked screening test Results are out of spec. Unless I’m burnt out from the day it’s value is -722Pa/s when min is 3929 Pa/s n max is 8191Pa/s. Does pcm think purge is blocked so won’t run o2 monitor Anyone know if purge is used to check o2 swing for monitor on this one?

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Chris Technician
Matawan, New Jersey
Chris Default
 

So test wants 0.5psi min to 1.18psi max of pressure and u have - 0.1 psi of vacuum. Has anyone checked for slightly stuck open purge . Could this be where original P0456 came from . Did you ever smoke test Evap system or chase that code?looks like ftp sensor is working fine with koeo ,was purge commanded on in your screenshot ? Figured you would have Slight pressure not vac from circulating fuel…

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Brian Owner
Parma, Ohio
Brian Default
 

Thinking the 02 switch to lean was not happening on decel( note that I was looking at the o2 and fuel trims on road test (not driving) and they seem normal except for a brief negative LTFT on both banks -15 % on decel at lower speeds < 25 mph ) , I blocked the purge port at the throttle body and canister , we test drove about 25 minutes and no 02 monitors. Thank you and everyone for input…

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Brian Owner
Parma, Ohio
Brian Default
 

I see that is out of spec in mode 6. Excellent question, Does pcm think purge is blocked so won’t run o2 monitor?

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Brian Owner
Parma, Ohio
Brian Update
 

Hello all quick update, unfortunately I was not able to get to this vehicle quickly enough and it was sent to the dealer. My customers customer .... was understandably getting aggravated. They promise to share results with me and I will post, or if the dealer throws parts and does not fix I will have another shot at it.

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Brian Instructor
Parma, Ohio
Brian Update
 

Update on this vehicle: Dealer has hung a PCM and not a change, they still have the vehicle. I may get another crack at it soon.

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