Information on 2.4 L Ford Duratorq - Puma with common rail system

Erwin Owner/Technician Barbados Posted   Latest  

I have a Land Rover Defender 2010 2.4L Diesel with a no start. I have tested all powers and grounds to the computer. The cam and crank signals seems ok according to the information I have received so far. CAN signal is ok. I can see no immobilizer fitted. No DTCs present. New battery fitted.

My rail pressure at KOEO is 1 volt and goes to 1.7 at cranking, but drops back to 1 v within one minute.

What should be the rail pressure sensor value at cranking to switch on the injectors? 

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Robert Educator
Senegal
Robert
 

What is your low pressure pump supplying? It should have 0.5 bar or about 7psi. If you aren't getting low pressure to the HP pump you will not generate HP. What is the VIN? What does scan data show for rail pressure? What codes are stored. Had a few of these with low pressure pump failure that caused HP pump failure.

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Erwin Owner/Technician
Barbados
Erwin
   

The 2.2L Duratorq carries a low pressure pump. This 2.4L has a lift pump in the HP pump. No codes. VIN SALLDHMT7AA794622

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David Mechanic
United Kingdom
David
 

Erwin , the scan tool data including the fuel pressure look ok . Will it run on alternative fuel ( sprayed into the air intake after the maf or you may damage the maf ). check to see if the injectors are triggering. Has it got the correct fuel i.e. not been fuelled with petrol ? Hope you get it sorted, regards Dave T…

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Erwin Owner/Technician
Barbados
Erwin
 

It will run perfect with alternative fuel. The injectors are not being triggered. Ohm test injectors all reading 0.7 ohms.

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David Mechanic
United Kingdom
David
 

Can you check immobiliser status on the scan tool ? Do you have access any tech data to enable you to check power and grounds at ecu ?

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David Mechanic
United Kingdom
David
 

Have you done a full system scan ?

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Erwin Owner/Technician
Barbados
Erwin
 

Did full system scan. There are only two modules fitted to this vehicle, Engine and Instrument panel. I checked all five grounds and four powers. I see no immobiliser fitted according to wire diagram.

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David Mechanic
United Kingdom
David
 

Have you checked for injector pulse at Ecu ? Have you checked relay‘s .

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Ricardo Diagnostician
Michigan
Ricardo
 

Maybe you are missing communications because it doesn' sound right that a 2010 has only 2 modules. But I may be wrong

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Eric Owner/Technician
Wisconsin
Eric
 

Shop Manual pdf, I'm pretty sure it's the correct one.

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John Technician
New Jersey
John
 

This is a wild guess, but looking at the scan data is 10.25volts cranking ok? Seems on the low side to me, but I am unfamiliar with the vehicle.

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Solaman Owner/Technician
Trinidad and Tobago
Solaman
 

Hi Erwin,since it started up with alternative fuel,mechanical is ruled out,crank angle sensor and fuel pressure is good,most likely your injectors is not pulsing. check power and ground to the ECU. You may need to do immobilizer Sync. Autologic blue box does this quite nicely. You can contact me at …

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Erwin Owner/Technician
Barbados
Erwin
 

Will check and update

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Paul Mobile Technician
United Kingdom
Paul
   

The 2.2 Duratorq is 270-300 Bar to turn on the injectors - so about there and looking at your waveform you have injector current flow (so the ECU is seeing the pressure OK) - but no drop in rail pressure for at least 2 out of 4 injectors possibly more when firing. Can you post the scope file (Pico 7 ?), also i see no increase in rail pressure with increasing RPM. Possibility that the pump has…

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Erwin Owner/Technician
Barbados
Erwin
   

Here is the scope file while starting with alternative fuel. Also the Cam vs Ckp while cranking

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Paul Mobile Technician
United Kingdom
Paul
 

Thanks, I can see now that I was mistaken and there there is no injector pulse after the first one. What are you scanning it with, as only 2 modules sounds unlikely as does no DTC's set with the fuel pressure not rising and the injectors switched off. Pressure not rising could be the volume control valve (aka suction control valve), this I believe is NO so it would either be being commanded…

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Erwin Owner/Technician
Barbados
Erwin
   

I am using Autel Elite scan tool. With the injector and VCV disconnected I got 4.48V (HP pump is good). I think maybe my cranking speed is too low - less than 250rpm. Battery is holding at 10.6v cranking but I am see less than 200rpm from crank sensor trace. Here is starting with alternative fuel to get a higher cranking speed. Notice there is now more than one injector pulse. Current…

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Paul Mobile Technician
United Kingdom
Paul
   

Just checking that you now have a code set for the VCV removal. I don't think the crank speed is the issue - From your first trace I am seeing up to 1800rpm and still no firing, same on 2nd but with more FRP (though injectors should be disconnected with VCV disconnected, and personally I would not add alternative fuel either) Are you seeing good MAP values

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Erwin Owner/Technician
Barbados
Erwin
 

I scanned it with the launch x431 v pro and got codes for the injectors and VCV, that was disconnected. Here is scan data with ignition on. MAP readings are ok. Got wiring diagrams today, so will study them carefuly.

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Erwin Owner/Technician
Barbados
Erwin
 

You are correct, I was looking at this wrong. My injectors are being turned on by the engine but the speed is increasing too slowly. At the first two injections the engine should have gained more than 1000 rpm. With 5 injections, the speed reached of only 780rpm indicates that either : - The injection amount is too short (ECT/IAT incorrect temperature) - The injection timing is incorrect…

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Paul Mobile Technician
United Kingdom
Paul
   

It does look like you have a pressure drop after the firings - I assume you now only have the clamp round the 1 injector. In the live data the only odd thing I spot is 3g/s from the MAF whilst stationary, not likely to be your issue but odd anyway. - Unless that was taken during cranking in which case you have lost crank signal at the ECU

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Erwin Owner/Technician
Barbados
Erwin
 

Shouldn't there be a pressure drop when the injectors open? Or are you indicating that the drop in pressure is too much?

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Seydina Technician
Georgia
Seydina
 

Can you attach the pico file please sir? And a scan report. Look like dme is intentionaly cutting injector pulse

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Erwin Owner/Technician
Barbados
Erwin
   

Yes, the computer is cutting off the injectors after the initial start. All four injectors were fired and the current is within specs. It is possible that something is affecting the computer. I know that the alarm is functioning because the alarm cuts the starter motor feed. Looking at the diagram the wiring is simple. This is a Ford Duratorq engine fitted to the Ford Transit …

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Paul Mobile Technician
United Kingdom
Paul
 

I was indicating that the injectors seem ok and are passing fuel. I checked and sorry all I have is a 2.0 Duratorq, does Pico have anything in their library? Can you scope powers and grounds to the ECU when cranking, maybe something is being triggered a few seconds into the crank that is taking out part of the ECU or is loading up the injector ground. Check the voltages on each side of an…

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Erwin Owner/Technician
Barbados
Erwin
 

Ok, here is what I found so far. This van started twice and ran well. I know now that there is something going on with this computer. As you mention, here is injector #1 voltage and current while cranking. Both voltage are the same. I am not seeing a closing signal on these injectors.

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Paul Mobile Technician
United Kingdom
Paul
   

Can you post the waveform file please, the pic is where you have current flow, what about where it is not firing. Though looking at that unless i am mistaken your voltage differential is only about 10v, seems like there is no current carrying ability on the ECU ground - did you scope it during cranking?

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Erwin Owner/Technician
Barbados
Erwin
 

Sorry I posted the wrong file. Here is what I am seeing now. All injector signals are being affected.

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Erwin Owner/Technician
Barbados
Erwin
 

Here is the injector circuit test at ignition on. The is injector #4 but all the other injectors are the same.

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Paul Mobile Technician
United Kingdom
Paul
   

Thanks. The "injector test​.​psd file you posted shows that the earth signal is present for 1 in 4 +ve voltages -the current ramp shows for other injectors which confused me for a moment ! ie the +ve cap discharge is supplied to all injectors but only the one required to fire is grounded by the ECU - in other words (I believe) all normal…. However the problem is that the +ve discharge is no…

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Erwin Owner/Technician
Barbados
Erwin
 

Nothing was changed except that I tapped on the ecu a few times to see if anything would changed. I am going to have the ecu tested.

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David Mechanic
United Kingdom
David
 

I have not read all of the posts, so forgive me if it’s been mentioned befor . Is the vehicle fitted with an after market security device I.e a tracker that will not allow it to start till the driver logs in . Just a thought….

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Erwin Owner/Technician
Barbados
Erwin
 

No it is not. This vehicle started and ran fine yesterday.

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Erwin Owner/Technician
Barbados
Erwin Delay
 

Will resume work on this vehicle in July.

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Erwin Owner/Technician
Barbados
Erwin Resolution
 

I am happy to report that this vehicle is fixed. I sent it to the dealer to get the computer replaced. It took some time for them to get a computer but now the vehicle is ok. Thanks for the input especially Paul and David who help me to resolve this issue.

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Thanks