Hunter and Autel ADAS

Matthew Mobile Technician Bartlett, Illinois Posted   Latest  

youtu​.​be/MuoyeQr-oxU

I saw this video at a Hunter training class yesterday. I was surprised that a reputable company like Hunter would get involved in something like this, but they are now working with Autel. How does this even get close to following the OEM procedure? It changes the centering procedure and it looks like the distance of target too. All of this is advertised as a 10 minute time saver. This is what our industry has become, bypass engineering to save 10 minutes... 

What do you guys think?

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Adam Owner/Technician
Glasgow, United Kingdom
Adam Default
   

Hi Matthew, Agree we have a surprising deviation from the norm here. An obviously business move to provide flexibility to secure market share in the aftermarket. The Autel stuff looks pretty serious in compassion to the likes of Hella. Utilising the Hunter targets will be an elegant solution to many, I'm sure. I would be interested to hear your opinion of any compromise to the net result using…

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James Owner/Technician
Pike, Pennsylvania
James Default
   

Typical change in thoughts and fears of this industry. After 50 years of of watching new things enter the market ABS, air bags, TPMS, fuel injection, electronic ignition, programmable modules, etc​.​ etc where it was always thought it's going to have to go back to the dealer, things start looking differently and it just becomes another daily task.

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Nick Diagnostician
Affton, Missouri
Nick Default
 

Hunter is trying to provide a solution for the aftermarket. I personally know a guy that is part of the R&D team at hunter for this. They also use OE tools to verify their system

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Brian Owner
Parma, Ohio
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I think it is risky business. I am concerned that if we can not prove that we did the job the way that SI stated we may be liable for any driver error. Call me chicken but my previous employment was a eye opener. Will hunter back us and take the liability when they don not even known if the vehicle was square? Remember the string alignment machines, have your buddy touch the screen, its green…

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Rudy Technician
Montebello, California
Rudy Default
 

I think Hunter is a company that specializes in this sort of endeavor and has engineers of their own. If they brought this to market,they must think it works. I wouldn't be surprised if they gain OEM approval,as the OE models are costly and cumbersome......

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Paul Technical Support Specialist
Lafayette, Colorado
Paul Default
   

Did Hunter bring this to market? I think they just showed how Autel's aftermarket targets and ADAS set will work with their aligner. They sure are not wanting to show the OE targets from Bosch, made by Beissbarth as they are competitors. Matthew Shanahan did the Hunter guy's say the Autel was a good way to do this? Look at some of the other ADAS threads on here. One mobile guy was saying he…

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Matthew Mobile Technician
Bartlett, Illinois
Matthew Default
 

He said they are now working with Autel, sounded like for integration in their software. Currently there are only a few makes Hunter does. The only one with a target learn is Nissan. Everything else is radar sensor adjustment with OE tools and dynamic learn with their code link tool. Looks like they want full coverage and did not want to start from scratch.

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Matthew Mobile Technician
Bartlett, Illinois
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Also, some shops around here were told they needed a separate insurance policy to do ADAS. Some of them were paid a surprise visit from their providers, they were looking for targets in the shop...

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Steve Instructor
Irvine, California
Steve Default
 

If notice that the vehicle is VW. This type of setup is very similar to the OE setup for Audi and VW that they teach in the training centers. This is so very important to have the vehicle square to the calibration board. At the T3, Hunter was very proud of the alliance with the German OE, and that the set was very much proprietary. Any setup outside the Hunter and OE procedure could potentially…

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Mike Mobile Technician
Mount Pleasant, South Carolina
Mike Default
 

This shows a VW being calibrated. Seeing as most of the OEM equipment for ADAS calibrations was in fact made by Hunter, and given the high failure rate of VW/Audi calibrations, I think it is safe to say that this is likely a revised and more accurate way of calibrating these systems. I would bet that these systems will end up in dealerships soon.

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Steve Instructor
Irvine, California
Steve Default
 

I am not sure of the old procedure, but that is the way that they teach it at the deal training centers. I saw material from your class, good stuff. If you don't mind me adding a few things on Audi and VW, the set up is about math and geometry. Once it is square, the calibration is just clicking the buttons. Another thing to add, if you change the rear toe by more than 7 minutes, the ADAS…

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Mike Mobile Technician
Mount Pleasant, South Carolina
Mike Default
 

Thanks Steve. I wish I had a little more experience with the Audi/VW systems but they aren't ideal for a mobile guy just yet. Essentially all of these calibrations involving squaring the target to the vehicle in some fashion. It is interesting to me how each manufacturer goes about it differently. It is interesting how some square against body centerline and others use wheel centers. I don't…

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Steve Instructor
Irvine, California
Steve Default
 

The rear toe is for vehicle vectoring. We teach only 4 wheel alignments anything less is out of manufacture tolerance. Change the rear toe change the forward movement of the vehicle. Audi teaches in minutes, more than 7 minutes of change the cameras need to be calibrated. VW and Audi use the Hunter machine to verify the calibration equipment is square to the vehicle. After you see it done, you…

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Mike Mobile Technician
Mount Pleasant, South Carolina
Mike Default
 

I understand how rear toe can change the forward movement of the vehicle, but so can a lot of other things. If the software can compensate for things like road crown it would seem that a change in rear toe should be insignificant. My thought is that rear toe may be the most significant adjustment that can cause a change that can't be easily determined by the software using wheel speeds?…

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Steve Instructor
Irvine, California
Steve Default
 

In our T3, the trainer was an integral part of the Hunter/VW Audi ADAS collaboration. He did video that talked about this. We were taught that the rear toe in the vectoring of the vehicle. After the alignment, the vehicle and heads stay on the alignment machine. The Hunter machine is used to square the camera board to the vehicle. If the rear toe is off, the vehicle may looking off to an…

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Mike Mobile Technician
Mount Pleasant, South Carolina
Mike Default
 

I understand how a thrust angle can make a significant change at a reasonable distance and I am familiar with using the hunter system to calibrate Nissans which is principally the same. I guess what seems interesting to me is that a perfectly centered rear toe would seem to have less of an impact on the actual direction of travel of the vehicle on the road, in comparison to other angles and…

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Steve Instructor
Irvine, California
Steve Default
 

Honestly, I drank the kool-aid. They told us what to and we did it.. in the end we had very little problems. Audi only performs 4 wheel alignments. Either is good or bad. If your caster camber is off the vehicle is broken. The steering angle sensors can be a bit fickle. If tires are bad, they need replacing. If the customer does not want fix his vehicle to keep his safety systems from…

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Mike Mobile Technician
Mount Pleasant, South Carolina
Mike Default
 

I get it. I repeatedly hear thrust angle brought up concerning ADAS systems. I'm not saying it isn't significant I'm just wondering why it is constantly referenced as the key angle in regards to ADAS calibrations. Maybe it's over my head but I honestly wonder if someone threw out the 1 degree off at 100 yards analogy and everyone ran with it. It seems like everyone thinks that these systems…

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Steve Instructor
Irvine, California
Steve Default
 

Mike, The Thrust angle is formed by the intersection of the geometric centerline and the thrust line. As we were taught to teach it, if the trust line was off from the centerline the vehicle will not vector straight. Yes, you can compensate with the other angles, but something is still incorrect. The trust line is described as the direction of the rear wheel pushing line. So if you have the…

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Mike Mobile Technician
Mount Pleasant, South Carolina
Mike Default
 

I think you're missing my point. I'm not arguing that thrust angle is important. I'm wondering why it is said to be more important than other factors (including other alignment angles) that can cause the vehicle in a direction other than that of the thrust angle. Are you saying that you can just set thrust angle correctly and the vehicle will travel directly straight in alignment with the…

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Steve Instructor
Irvine, California
Steve Default
 

I guess I do not have the answer you are looking for. The training that I received was that a 4 wheel alignment is only alignment that a vehicle with ADAS should get. Anything less is not the recommended procedure. All measurements should be brought to center point in the green zone when using the Hunter machine. Once the 4 wheel alignment was performed, then the ADAS system can be…

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Adam Owner/Technician
Glasgow, United Kingdom
Adam Default
 

What if rear axle is not adjustable?

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Steve Instructor
Irvine, California
Steve Default
 

On the vehicles that used in the training center, they all were adjustable. About non adjustable, was the vehicle in an accident? What is bent? Does the vehicle have ADAS? What is the manufacturer guideline for this vehicle? In conversation that we had, if the vehicle is out of alignment, why was it not fixed. Then, until the vehicle is fixed can calibrations take place. Hope this helps.

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Adam Owner/Technician
Glasgow, United Kingdom
Adam Default
   

Thank you, Steve. I guess what can be an issue in reality is that the domestic vehicles with non-adjustable rear axles are often budget vehicles. The owners of such vehicles are definitely going to be having a bad day when the tech‘s report includes a recommendation for a new rear axle prior to alignment and ADAS calibration. Of course I do understand and subscribe to protocol, completely…

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Steve Instructor
Irvine, California
Steve Default
 

Adam, please remember that my posts are from what I learned and what I teach. I can be mistaken. Yes there is going to be some obsolescence. The price we have to pay for the autonomous vehicle.

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Steve Instructor
Irvine, California
Steve Default
 

The squaring of the targets take minutes when you understand the math and geometry. Don't be overwhelmed, you have not learned it yet.

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Stephen Owner/Technician
Orange, Texas
Stephen Default
 

Hello Steve, I am trying to devise a plan on when to make mandatory ADAS calibrations after a 4 wheel alignment. On Audi / VW vehicles you state if the rear toe is adjusted by more than 7 minutes the ADAS calibrations are required. Under Audi wheel alignment procedure it states: If settings on the rear axle have been changed, the driver assist systems must be adjusted/calibrated. The 7 minute…

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Steve Instructor
Irvine, California
Steve Default
   

This was taught in our train the trainer. Most of us instructors teach that. On your next Audi alignment, look what less than and greater than 7 minutes is. You then see why Audi teaches this statement about when you adjust the rear axle the ADAS calibrations should be performed. Spoiler alert, it is very little adjustment. I will look to see what I can share. From my notes: dual lane…

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David Instructor
Kokomo, Indiana
David Default
 

Mike - your prediction is accurate - just seen Autel hardware kit for Hunter alignment rack on the Ford equipment website today.

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Mike Mobile Technician
Charleston, South Carolina
Mike Default
 

I just looked it up. Would be cool to see how Ford is implementing that system. Thanks for the heads up!

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Christopher Technician
San Antonio, Texas
Christopher Default
   

I've heard Hunter is working with Toyota/Lexus to develop a similar system. Also, trigonometry is immutable. If you can input the angles and distances (and put the target there), there is no mathematical difference, it's simply a matter of precision.

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Steve Instructor
Irvine, California
Steve Default
 

Our trainer for our T3 stated that Hunter is working with most all manufactures. Hearing that they are working with Toyota/Lexus is not surprising. Like your comment on precision, without it you calibrations will be looking in another lane.

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Matthew Mobile Technician
Bartlett, Illinois
Matthew Default
 

I guess the purpose of my post was not to challenge the process Hunter has developed, and I know that a few OEMs use them. My concern is with the current OEM statement papers out, this does deviate from their procedure. Where does the liability fall?

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Steve Instructor
Irvine, California
Steve Default
 

Matt, When we teach ADAS at Audi, we never deviated. If there was a deviation, it was well documented up the chain of command. If it was a safety system, there was not deviation. In some discussion groups that I was a part of, in regards to liability the term race to the bottom came up a lot. Who wants to be the first to be sued? Being that the OE's are one's with the information, who wants…

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Colin Owner/Technician
Prudhoe, United Kingdom
Colin Default
 

Audi Vehicle Assistance Systems documents from Hunter. File attached. Also have other VAG and Hunter training manuals if needed.

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Steve Instructor
Irvine, California
Steve Default
 

Hi Colin, That is one of the books. Great job finding it.

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Colin Owner/Technician
Prudhoe, United Kingdom
Colin Default
 

Got a number of other Hunter training books if anyone wants a copy. Put them in a Dropbox folder for folk to access. dropbox​.​com/sh/32ikam8nvxi…

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James Technician
Lewisville, Texas
James Default
 

My understanding is the Hunter Autel Integration saves setup time by 50% by using the Thrust line in conjunction with the wheel markers. I'm certainly interested in this system and was hoping to find someone in the real-world running this setup. I know the system is very new. But I'm wondering how targets can be spaced properly from the front of vehicle. Is there no interference issues. All I do…

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