What lug nuts?

Rudy Technician Montebello, California Posted   Latest  

Some one should tighten these judges obviously loose lugnuts......

autoinc​.​org/jalopnik-does…

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Domenic Owner/Technician
Great Barraington, Massachusetts
Domenic Default
 

I saw that a few days ago... bizarre and shameful.

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James Owner/Technician
Brook, Indiana
James Default
 

Just wow!

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Michael Owner/Technician
Quakertown, Pennsylvania
Michael Default
 

Michigan...same state that bans "flavored vape juice" then Unbans it

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Sean Owner/Technician
Santa Ana, California
Sean Default
 

it is crazy but most people would change their mind when they are on the receiving end as an owner/operator-the attorney fees are higher that the damages, how does that make sense, never have had that happen in 30+ years, but that is going to be a dark day when I have to pay $110,000 for damages that happens to the best of us, A small shop would have to declare bankruptcy or pay much higher fees…

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Marlin Technician
Estacada, Oregon
Marlin Default
 

I suppose they consider themselves to be perfect, or they assume that they are special enough to never get caught. Naw, more likely they have gotten caught up in the current trend of shooting now and identifying the target later.

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Chris Technical Support Specialist
Commack, New York
Chris Default
 

If Service Information call for a torque check after 250 or 500 miles is the shop liable??

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Michael Owner/Technician
Quakertown, Pennsylvania
Michael Default
 

My tech came from a pep boys and he told me that they have it in every RO that the customer needs to come back in 250 miles to retorque the lugs. Now, who is going to do that?? Is this to release themselves from liability if they don't come back to have em retorqued?

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Stuart Mobile Technician
Blue Island, Illinois
Stuart Default
 

I worked for Pep Boys,yes I do admit it,lol​.​And yes we had to use torque sticks and go over with a torque wrench as company policy​.​If you did not follow that procedure you were immediately terminated​.​Zero tolorence for that and you were on camera so they knew and also knew when a customer was trying to pull a fast one​.​We had one customer…

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Marlin Technician
Estacada, Oregon
Marlin Default
 

Check again, The judges ruled wisely. It's the poor lawyer who lost his undeserved payout.

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Rudy Technician
Montebello, California
Rudy Default
 

I disagree with their interpretation. I do no think they ruled wisely at all. Excluding the" tightening of the lugnuts" from a tire rotation definition because it is not specifically called out is ridiculous....

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Marlin Technician
Estacada, Oregon
Marlin Default
 

Do you want to go to prison in the case that you someday forget to tighten some lug nuts? That would be a likely result of ruling by your directive. Be careful how you judge.

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Chris Technical Support Specialist
Commack, New York
Chris Default
 

Would the tech be individually liable or the shop?

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Marlin Technician
Estacada, Oregon
Marlin Default
 

Potentially both. Fraud cases can bring judgments against both.

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Rudy Technician
Montebello, California
Rudy Default
 

LoL wut?! The argument of the case is whether or not the customer was charged for something that was done or not, not negligence. I judge harsh and and uncompromisingly!!

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Marlin Technician
Estacada, Oregon
Marlin Default
   

Correct. The business and technician did not defraud the customer by charging for service which they chose to not perform; the wheel was obviously installed, as evident by the vehicle having been driven. If they were following their procedures which specify leaving nuts without correct torque, then they may be held in contempt of the law. I suppose that will be decided some day. Below is copy…

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Anthony Technical Support Specialist
Kirkwood, Pennsylvania
Anthony Default
 

Hi Rudy: You can disagree all you want but negligence is not fraud. The suit was basically for fraud, not negligence. The job was done. It appears that it wasn't done properly but it was done. If the suit was filed for negligence, this conversation and the article would never have happened. The ruling is not that long. Read it for…

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Scott Owner
Moreno Valley, California
Scott Default
   

Hi Guido, If a procedure/service was done using the GM service information for the vehicle I showed below, the customer paid for something that does not constitute a tire rotation. Was there negligence involved? Certainly! Was this also fraud? I could make an argument stating that they paid for something they did not receive. If we're to follow procedures, a tire rotation consists of - 1…

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Anthony Technical Support Specialist
Kirkwood, Pennsylvania
Anthony Default
 

Hi Scott: Not according to the people wearing the black night shirts in MI. Then again, unless overturned on a subsequent appeal, this only applies to MI and only applies to that particular law. Not being a resident of the state (nor an attorney) I have no intimate knowledge of their laws and regulations. All I know is that when I pass the Marathon at the 11 yardstick on 75, if I hold back for…

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Sean Owner
Cornville, Arizona
Sean Default
 

You are absolutely correct. The dealership was sued based on a law that protects consumers from repairs not performed. It mentions nothing of completing repairs. Since the lugnuts weren't torqued, it's obvious that a rotation was performed, therefore the law was not broken. The article states that they were awarded 40k, and that 70k in legal fees be paid by the dealership. The vehicle owners…

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Rudy Technician
Montebello, California
Rudy Default
 

Again I disagree. Removing and installing lugnuts is inherent with the tire rotation. A complete and proper tire rotation cannot be properly performed if one or the other of these acts are'nt done.

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Andrew Technician
Provo, Utah
Andrew Default
 

The key part is that the dealership didn't deceive the customer (charge for something not done). The job was done, but negligently. The sole difference legally being whether or not the attorney got paid. The dealership was still liable for the actual damages. Basically the attorney got greedy and tried to apply the law in a way it was not written.

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Sean Owner
Cornville, Arizona
Sean Default
 

Agreed. If they were going for negligence, that's what they should have sued for. Instead, they chose to pick on a law that hold shops accountable for charging for a service, and then not doing said service at all. Since the nuts were loose, it was obvious that a rotation had been performed, just done improperly. The law does not state that a repair has to be done correctly, just that it has to…

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Rudy Technician
Montebello, California
Rudy Default
 

There is no legal definition of what constitutes a complete rotation,so the judges used their discretion to decide what a complete rotation is. IMO the rotation is not done until the lugs are torqued. So the dealership DID deceive the customer. Itll be interesting to see where this case goes.....

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Andrew Technician
Provo, Utah
Andrew Default
 

Did the dealership do this with the intent to deceive?

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Jeffrey Mobile Technician
Winthrop Harbor, Illinois
Jeffrey Default
 

Who here considers something being performed if it’s only partially done. If a shop charged you to bleed the brake system but only bled rears was the job performed.

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Chris Technical Support Specialist
Commack, New York
Chris Default
 

Is there air in the system still?? You referenced bleed not flushed. and down the rabbit hole we go......

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Marlin Technician
Estacada, Oregon
Marlin Default
 

Have you ever sold an oil change, but not changed all of the oil?

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Scott Owner
Moreno Valley, California
Scott Default
 

I'm with you Rudy. I could have looked at another car, but I had this one opened up. Here's what GM says constitutes a tire rotation. If we're paid to provide a service, we should be performing the steps necessary to do said service, including the last one. How many places relearn TPMS's? Given some of the offers I receive to perform a LOF and tire rotation it's a wonder this doesn't happen…

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Douglas Technician
Hermon, Maine
Douglas Default
 

We have a separate line on every RO for lug nut retorque. If the RO has a tire rotation line billed at .4 hrs, it always has a retorque all lug nuts line at .1 hours. Also every RO states that the customer must retorque the lug nuts after 100 miles. Courts are very particular on how the wording is Interpreted, not in the common sense dept. Interesting find.

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Chris Technical Support Specialist
Commack, New York
Chris Default
 

WOW! .5 for a rotate?? The last shop I was in was .3 for rotate even for F550's and shuttle busses. I still lubed the hub pilot, drop of oil on the lug nut washers, set psi, and torqued with torque sticks. Never really made time on tire rotations. I have heard of some shops doing oil change, rotate, and align checks for .5 in the non dealer world. How can you expect to get quality work from…

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James Owner/Technician
Pike, Pennsylvania
James Default
 

I think the headline is totally misleading, typical journalism these days. Of course tightening lug nuts is part of a tire rotation but there is a difference between intentionally charging for something you didn't do and negligence i.e.. getting interrupted and forgetting to tighten lug nuts .

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Craig Manager
Grand Rapids, Michigan
Craig Default
 

This is precisely the point. I've been in Michigan all my life... while the case shocks me a bit.. I am torn on the legality. The insinuation is that tightening the lugs is not a part of the job. To my knowledge, what is actually stated is that tightening the lugs is not a billed item line item. If they "charged" for lug nut tightening and did not do it, that would be fraud. It is not fraud…

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Jonathan Technician
Tempe, Arizona
Jonathan Default
 

Lawyers, politicians, auto mechanics and judges. If three of those "professions" disappeared the World would be a much better (and smarter) place.

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Anthony Technical Support Specialist
Kirkwood, Pennsylvania
Anthony Default
 

So, when are you running for office, Jon? 😁 Guido

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Jonathan Technician
Tempe, Arizona
Jonathan Default
 

They won't let me, I'm not a convicted criminal...yet;-)

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Anthony Technical Support Specialist
Kirkwood, Pennsylvania
Anthony Default
 

Goog thing that you're 3 hours behind me, Jon. The day is still young. Guido

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