Overheating Ford 1.6 EcoBoost

John from Delta Owner/Technician Posted   Latest   Edited  
Question
Propulsion
2013 Ford Escape SE 1.6L (X) 6-spd (6F35)
Vehicle Overheating

Hi guys. 

We have this 2013 1.6 Eco boost Escape in. We replaced head gasket and thermostat about 6 weeks ago. We had the head surfaced and new head bolts etc. It had came in then for overheating and misfiring. #1 cylinder was taking in water and misfiring. Got towed in yesterday overheating again. When we got to it the engine was cold but the temperature gauge was pegged hot. Coolant level was low because the customer had taken the cap off when hot and it sprayed everywhere. Anyway we topped it up and bled it. We took the CTS connection off and cleaned it and the gauge went back to normal. But bleeding it it overheated. It set a code for the valve that keeps the coolant in the block until it heats up. So we replaced The bypass valve. Bled it and still overheating. My techs calling thermostat, which was replaced with a New Napa thermostat. It's a 4 hour job to replace it. 

Has anyone had cooling overheating issues with these? Not a lot on line about them. We have Identifix, Mitchell, Alldata and IATN. Spent a lot of time on these sites. HELP hopefully someone has ran into this. TIA. John.

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Joel from Soquel

 

Diagnostician
 

I will install a dealer thermostat have been in your sitaution 2 times one ford escape and 1 infinity g35 

both the fixe was dealer part we try 2 after market thermostat with no luck . not worth it

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Maurice from Geebung

 

Business Development Manager
 

I agree with Joel if it is a 4 hour job then fit genuine

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Michael from Clinton

 

Mobile Technician
 

Before replacing the thermostat, maybe use an airlift (vacuum evacuation) tool to refill the engine with coolant. It sounds to me like there is a ton of air left in the system and it is preventing good circulation.

+1

Thomas from Saint Petersburg

 

Diagnostician
 

Unfortunately, dealer parts seem to be the best way to go. Have had literally hundreds of bad aftermarket stats over the years. When a job calls for more than a couple of hours, OE parts are going in. Helps mitigate the frustration.

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Bob from East Longmeadow

 

Owner/Technician
 

I will second the Air Lift suggestion for getting the air out of the system. Some engine designs don't purge well on their own.

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Chris from Commack

   

Technical Support Specialist
   

I would recheck your bleed procedure, the workshop manual information is pretty specific about multiple cycles to purge remaining air. That being said, which DTC did you get and which valve did you replace? I have seen some engine issues with cracking at the top of the cylinder wall, that was mostly 2.0's If you pressure test the cooling system overnight are you getting coolant in the cylinders? Also is this vehicle equipped with the CAN networked Coolant level sensor? when they act up they will pin the gauge hot if they are offline.

+1

Donny from Wheat Ridge

 

Owner/Technician
 

John,

You may want to read up on this system. It is not like other vehicles. There is a 4 phase approach to warming up the engine employed by the PCM. The thermostat's effective open temp is manipulated by how much and when coolant is applied to it. This system can scrub 10 degrees off it's operating temp in seconds. I printed the information on how it works and attached it. While I agree that Ecoboost engines need their exact thermostat it seem unlikely that the original issue and this one were duplicated by two different stats that quickly. The coolant control solenoid can be manipulated with the scan tool so you may want to take Michael's advice with the scan tool and the air lift together. You will find this information in Ford's Motorcraft Service and MotoLogic for certain. 

+5

John from Delta

 

Owner/Technician
 

Hi Guys, thanks for all your input and thoughts, When the car came in it had code 26B7 coolant bypass valve which we replaced and it fixed that problem Tech put another thermostat in, another Napa one. He bled the system and did an Airlift using the vacuum tool a few times. We ran it and let it cool down several times. I road tested it 4 times, the gauge sat at 1/2 and everthing was fine until the last road test. The gauge still read 1/2 but at a stop sign I lost heat, if I revved it up heat came back. The coolant level never changed. The customer insisted she take the car even though I wanted it for another night. SHe picked it up and guess what 1/2 hour later she phoned, overheated and wont drive. She gets it towed in, I checked it this morning and just starting the car the temp gauge is pegged hot and the car won't rev up. The engine is stone cold. My tech looked at it and scan codes P0217 engine coolant over temp, P0219 engine over speed, P1299 cylinder head over temperature protection active. On the scan data it showed both Cylinder head temperature and coolant temperature at 11 degrees celcius which is ambient temperature today. It started but wouldnt rev until we cleared the codes. KOEO showed code P1299 cylinder head over temp protection. Have any you guys seen this before. I think its an electrical fault not an overheating fault. Any thoughts? TIA John

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Michael from Clinton

 

Mobile Technician
 

John, 

At this point I would suspect compression / exhaust gasses getting into the cooling system. Back when I was gathering tool ideas, a guy in Pendleton, Oregon showed me an invention he made. He modified a pressure cap with a fitting. He attached this to a hose that came into the passenger compartment. On the other end was a valve when switched would let the pressure out of the system into an overflow. He used it for vehicles that would not bubble or show CO / CO2 at idle or in the shop. Once loaded the vehicle seemed to loose coolant. This was common on Subaru models. There was a gauge inline on the pressure side. If the pressure got high, (10-15 PSI) he would open the valve and let some pressure out, then retest. I wonder if a contraption like that would help in your diagnosis. With the customer experiencing old faithful it seems more like a mechanical issue.

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John from Delta

 

Owner/Technician
 

Guys, we have an update. We rebled system yesterday, this morning the level was still normal. We let it idle for an hour and all was ok. I took the car for a road test on the freeway, 15 minutes into road test the dash beeped, I looked at my scan tool, coolant temperature and cylinder head temperature were climbing both at the same rate. within a minute they were reading 125-130 degrees C, the gauge was pegged hot and the car had restricted performance..I pulled over as I couldnt go anywhere. I opened the hood and the reservoir was bubbling and up past 3/4. fan was running full blast. I let it cool for 5 minutes, checked freeze frame data and codes, had codes p0217 engine coolant over temperature and P1299 cylinder head over temperature protection. I still had heat in the car.. I cleared codes and started car and temperature went down to 115C I drove the car back to the shop with the gauge reading normal and scan data temperatures normal 100 C. So we know we have an intermittent over heat but what's causing it?. When we replaced the head gasket and pressure tested cooling system there was nothing obvious except quite a bit of white powder substance, We also pulled off as many hoses as we could and found some thick grease like substance in the bypass valve hose almost like a stop leak or something like that. We have back flushed the rad twice and it seems like it's flowing fine. The water pump feels ok and when we replaced the thermostat the tech reached in behind the water pump and the impeller felt ok. Has anyone seem a cracked head or block that the crack will only open up under certain conditions like higher speeds and acceleration under load etc. We're stumped with this one. I really appreciate any feed back supplied. Thanks guys. John

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Joel from Soquel

   

Diagnostician
   

did you install genuine thermostats already and lift vaccum fill coolant ? 

the best way I have found to find issues like the one you mentioned is doing leak down test , fill complete reservoir and you see bubbles during leak down , I will recommend to drive the vehicle with scan data power balance test to find out wich cylinder is dropping should be one even if you do not feel it misfire and start leak down on that specific cylider .

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John from Delta

 

Owner/Technician
 

Hi Joel, we have fitted 2 Napa thermostats and we have vacuum lifted the coolant 2 times. We will do a leak down test. Thanks for info, John

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Joel from Soquel

   

Diagnostician
   

there is your problem my friend napa thermostat, 

I was messing all day long with infinity 06 g35 could not bleed the sytem over heated all day playing with it vaccum lift , and I got the one from the dealer boom in less than an hour done .

I have relaized when calling for support to identix , the first thing they tell you is use oem genuine parts 99% of my problem have been solved with oem parts, to the point when I have one weird issue , If I have to call them before I replace parts with oem , 

had for diesel f250 6.0 L with duall alternator when vehicle came in had dtc for both alternator not charging , both were faulty . repalce both same result , replace again with difereent brand of after market still problem present , due to not information on service manual how the computer control it had to call identifix. guide me with the testing , by the way connector unplug key on the wire coming from ecu should have battery voltage unplug, conect it the alternator should dropt the voltage to about 9 volts , start engine voltage should vary according to electrical demand but is not duty cycle control , I had all those , this tech told me replace it with dealer parts , remove them at this point and checking for open or short the wire from alt to ecu , the dealer price was 3 times more the price than after market , problem solved , expensive rigth , 

was more expensive for me messing with this system . 

that is the way how I fix problems other can not fix 70% the problem is the after market parts the other lack of knowledge of system operations.

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Eric from Edgerton

 

Owner/Technician
 

Hi,

I would install an OEM thermostat. When the engine overheated while you were driving and you stopped and raised the hood, the fans were running, was the air coming out of the radiator hot or cold? Cold would indicate a flow problem, hot coolant not flowing from the engine into the radiator. Hot would indicate an actual overheat problem, hot coolant flowing into the radiator but not cooling down.

You need to check the radiator hose temperatures during the overheat to see if the coolant is cooling down as it flows through the radiator.

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Joel from Soquel

 

Diagnostician
 

Inconsistance the heater was not blowing hot ath times , my lower radiator hose was cold , boiling over the coolant

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Eric from Edgerton

 

Owner/Technician
 

In John's post that I replied to he stated he still had heat when the sensors and gauges show the engine to be overheating. I wanted to know if the radiator was hot too or just the engine.

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Chris from Commack

 

Technical Support Specialist
 

CHECK THE COOLANT SHUTOFF SOLENOID FOR BEING STUCK CLOSED Start the engine. Allow the engine to reach operating temperature. Visually inspect for coolant flow in the degas bottle. Is coolant flow present? Yes Check for coolant bypass valve operation(next step) No INSTALL a new coolant shutoff solenoid.

COOLANT SHUTOFF VALVE is located near the thermostat Wires are violet/orange and violet/brown

CHECK THE COOLANT BYPASS SOLENOID VALVE FOR BEING STUCK CLOSED Start the engine or road test to duplicate the overheat condition. Feel the bypass coolant hose between the coolant bypass solenoid valve at the rear of the cylinder head and the thermostat housing. Is the bypass hose cool to the touch? Yes INSTALL a new coolant bypass solenoid valve. No Continue testing

COOLANT BYPASS SOLENOID is on the bell housing side of the engine Wires are yellow/grey and violet/brown

If equipped with active grille shutters, check operation with active commands, and inspect under over temp conditions

+1

John from Delta

 

Owner/Technician
 

Hey guys thanks for all the advise. What we did on Friday was installed a new OEM thermostat. Before we installed it I did an old school test of boiling a tin of water and submersing the Napa one first. It opened partially about 98-100 degrees C. It closed about 92 degrees. I then tested the ford thermostat it was wide open at 95 and closed at 80 degrees so opening sooner and staying open longer. So I thought let's put it in. We did and bled and vacuumed the system and I road tested for 1/2 hour temp sat normal scan reading was way cooler than the napa stat on the freeway it sat at 90 degrees. Stopped at light went up to 95-98. Fan cut in and 100 and cut out at 90. Definitely cooler than the napa stat. As the fan was on most of the time when up to temperature. So we let it sit until Monday. Roadtested it 3 times and all was good. Let the customer pick it up and 45 minutes later it's overheated on the freeway. This is frustrating and embarrassing. My guys thinking cracked head or block. We're doing a combustion test and leak down test later today. Chris could the coolant shut off solenoid intermittently do this? Or any thing else other than cracked block or head. We can't give up on this now. TIA. John.

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Maurice from Geebung

 

Business Development Manager
 

John I feel your pain, yes do a leak down test, but even a leak down test may not pick up a hair line crack that only opens up when hot. If you do not find a problem when doing a leak down test then drain out half the coolant and run the engine with about 50% coolant left in the block (not for too long as you do not want to seize and cook the engine) but just long enough to get enough heat to open up any hair line cracks. Using your gas analyser through the coolant inlet and if you do have a combustion leak you should pick this up with your analyser showing carbon monoxide (CO) and hydrocarbon (HC) gases escaping into the radiator.

+1

Mark from Sahuarita

 

Manager
 

John,

Bummer, not interested in kicking you while down...just a few thoughts.

First I am far from an expert on Ecoboost, just what I have researched and tested.

If I recall correctly, the only Ford Factory recommendation I have seen for head issues is replacement.

Dirty valves? Replace head. Needs valve job - replace head. Needs surfacing - replace head.

Also factory procedure looks important...guide pins, etc.

Not saying I'm a fan of OE recommendations BUT Ecoboost scares the poop out of me.

Why? Look at my two columns, I'm not sure the usual margin for in use deterioration of the cooling system is there.

Of course if an engine pumps twice the air and twice the fuel in needs twice the cooling system.

That said the combustion heat has to get from the head/valves to the cooling system. Reference my columns. Yipes!

Just another thought with an overhead valve engine when you shave the head, the shortened length between cam and crank causes the timing to retard. Some cars you had different cam gear positions or shimmed the cam towers to compensate. Not sure the Ecoboost has any compensation for this as they only recommend head replacement.

From what I see the Ecoboost's are not holding together that great from factory. Any deviation from factory concerns me. Personally my recommendation is not to get inside these engines.

My poorly informed recommendation...replace the head.

No judgement here

motor​.​com/magazine-summa…

motor​.​com/magazine-summa…

Definition of "Experience" - What you get, when you didn't get, what you wanted.

Good luck - Hope you don't have a pin hole in cylinder like I had once on assumed head leakage problem!

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Mark from Sahuarita

 

Manager
 

Wow links formatted weird in last post???

Be sure to scroll to see entire post.

Thanks!

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Chris from Commack

 

Technical Support Specialist
 

If the coolant shut off valve is stuck closed this will prevent circulation through parts of the cooling system. It is possible. when the valve is open, there should be visable "flow" or turbulence in the coolant bottle.

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Chris from Bryans Road

 

Technician
 

Hello, This seems like a crazy issue you are having. I would really start to wonder if it is actually overheating and its just not a glitch or something with one of the many sensors in this cooling system. After some poking around on identifix and some escape forums this seems like it is a very common issue with the 2013s with 1.6L. A lot of angry people on the forums that are having this issue and seems like the dealer is not sure of a fix. Im not sure if you have Identifix but if you do and search coolant level sensor there is a couple of people having a very similar issue and are claiming this is a fix. I am not 100% sure why a coolant level sensor would be causing you issue but people are stating that corrosion is a possible issue with this. There also seems to be a recall for this issue (Recall 13S12) but most people on the forums are saying that is not fixing the issue. Maybe a long shot but at this point in time seems like anything might be worth a shot. Just figured I would share a little info!

Chris

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John from Delta

 

Owner/Technician
 

Guys I'm sure now we have the answer. We did a combustion gas test in the coolant bottle and it turned yellow right away. We also did a coolant pressure test over night and #1 cylinder had coolant in it. Same cylinder at the beginning of this nightmare. Our thinking of this is the crack only opens up when the car gets up to a certain temperature and under certain load conditions. The head was pressure tested and skimmed but the head was at ambient temperature. So I think a used engine is our way out of this. It's going to cost us but we've got lots of hours into this so hopefully this will fix the nightmare. Thank you for all your comments and help. Sometimes this business sucks. Tomorrow is a new day. Cheers.

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Maurice from Geebung

 

Business Development Manager
 

Great to hear you have a direction, not so good that you are out of pocket. Would it be worth you contacting your liability insurance company and pled negligence and have them cover you.

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John from Delta

 

Owner/Technician
 

Thanks Maurice. I think by the time our deductible etc is taken off I don't think it would be worth it. Cheers.

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