Known Good TCV scope shot for Toyota Rav4

Timothy Owner/Technician Wisconsin Posted   Latest  
Resolved
Driveability
2010 Toyota RAV4 2.5L (2AR-FE) 4-spd (U140F) — JTMZF4DV9AD015867
P2009 — Intake Manifold Runner Control Circuit Low Bank 1
Runs Fine
MIL On

Vehicle comes in with P0300, P2004, and no P2009. Intake control circuit low…the misfires get repaired with COPs, plugs and cleaning all the grounds at the head for the COPs. Still had P2004. Shop tells 'em “intake manifold stuck”.

Customer takes it to Toyo, and they tell ‘em, “intake manifold”. Customer takes it back to my client, and they replace the manifold with OEM, from the dealer. Now, we’ve got a P2009 set. I can clear the code when cold, and it stays away until about two minutes or so of idle time, then the code sets.

The scope shot shows the code setting about page 4…

Manually opening the VTC with the power running from the PCM to the TCV, through an ammeter, shows about 3.5A in either direction. Code set criteria says amps below .35 sets the code…pretty much eliminates the wiring from the PCM to the TCV.

Just wondering if anyone has played with this before and has a usable scope shot.

Otherwise, I'm thinking PCM.

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Eric Owner/Technician
Wisconsin
Eric
 

Still have the original intake manifold? Connect it up and see what happens. The three that I have worked on had less then 3 amps, I think I read that 3 amps is considered the max upper current draw and 0.40 amps minimum low end current draw. I also noted under enabling conditions Toyota wants to see the difference between motor current and previous motor current to be below 0.20 amps. Your…

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Timothy Owner/Technician
Wisconsin
Timothy
 

Because, if you read SI a bit more carefully, the code sets when the ‘voltage’ is out of range…?two different parts of the same DTC diagnosis. Yeah, part of the SI says it trips when current drops less than .35A, but further down the trouble (which only gets one in ‘trouble’!) tree, the voltage is allegedly checked and can cause the code as well. Of course, if the circuit went open, the voltage…

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Eric Owner/Technician
Wisconsin
Eric
 

Okay, I read the SI very very carefully, alone in a quiet room, read it three times. I only see one area that states: MONITOR DESCRIPTION When the voltage of the DC motor deviates from the standard range, the ECM determines that a malfunction has occurred and outputs a DTC. I can find no other mention of the word “voltage” anywhere in the testing procedure. It is my opinion that the above…

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Timothy Owner/Technician
Wisconsin
Timothy
 

Well, if the voltage falls, obviously current will as well. I just used my ammeter to power the motor, and it never falls below 3.5A, in either direction, which would be ten times the fail point current…I suppose I could go with an amp clamp, but, it's a total PITA to get to the circuit while it's running to get an amp-probe on it.

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Eric Owner/Technician
Wisconsin
Eric
 

If you have the old manifold, try powering the motor on that one. I'm thinking that is too much current. Should not be above 3.0 amps, the ones I have tested are just under 3.0 amps. I'm finding it's not any easier to get a volt meter on this one, everything appears to be buried under something else.

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Timothy Owner/Technician
Wisconsin
Timothy
 

Well, it is a brand new (zero miles) intake from Toyota, so I'm kinda doubtful the amps are too high, especially when the code indicates low current. And that current is peak current, done manually…

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Eric Owner/Technician
Wisconsin
Eric
 

I was unable to get a capture from the 2012 Camry. The customer showed up as I was installing the alternator and wanted their car as soon as I finished it. Not that it helps right now but I will get a capture next time the vehicle is in for it's regular maintenance. As far as the higher than normal current draw, If it is too high it could indicate a shorted winding in the motor which, if true…

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Eric Owner/Technician
Wisconsin
Eric
 

I have a 2012 Camry, same engine here until end of day Tuesday. I can capture what you want if you let me know what and where to connect to. I can't supply anything for the charging system, alternator is no longer working and once that is repaired the vehicle will be leaving.

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Timothy Owner/Technician
Wisconsin
Timothy
 

If you could, scope the power and ground to the TCV (intake Manifold Runner) motor while running. Just to see if there's anything remotely similar compared to what I'm seeing.

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Eric Owner/Technician
Wisconsin
Eric
 

I'll go in a little early and make a few measurements and post them here.

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Eric Owner/Technician
Wisconsin
Eric
 

Tim, I had another 2012 Camry come in today for some work and I was able to capture the operation of the Tumble Valve on a cold start. It doesn't look at all like yours. I checked my connections and made 5 separate captures, they all look the same. Eric

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Timothy Owner/Technician
Wisconsin
Timothy Resolution
 

Well, the issue was solved when Eric sent me a known good scope shot. I could easily see that the power side was pulsing right along with the ground. Essentially there was no current flow because the power and the ground were just oscillating back and forth, thus the low amperage code sets. Did check for shorted wires but none were found, so the issue is in the ECM, at this point. Customer has…

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