Cam/crank Corr. codes
For some reason, I couldn't get the vin in the description.
Back story, My customer bought this a week ago from people that don't speak English very well. Two days after purchasing, MIL illuminates. He takes it back to these guys, they replaced both cam sensors with the duralast brand sensors. 4 hours later the light is back and he brings it to me.
Being a correlation code, My first check was to put it to TDC and see if the alignment tool will fit where it is meant go. It all lined up fine(see Pics). Next, I scoped the signals. I have an abnormal amount of Hash in my signals. Also, the first two captures were of the duralast sensors. The sensors would only pull down to 1 volt, meaning that I had a 1 to 5 volt square wave. Up to 5 and down to 1. After installing the original sensors, the sensors produced what I would call normal, 0-5 volt square wave(except for the hash). I did try unplugging the Alternator, but the hash was still there.
Does anyone have a Known good cam/crank for this? I did find one for a 2015, and if it is supposed to be the same, I must have phaser/solenoid problems. It puts the intake 31 degrees out and the exhaust 18 degrees out.
Has anyone seen this kind of hash on a GM? Is this caused by caps in the PCM? Do you think the hash would cause my codes?
I guess next I will pull the solenoids out and see if I can see them sticking. I have used the scan tool to actuate both of them and they do function.
Other things to note:
1)I have only seen the p0017 exhaust cam corr. code. My customer showed me a picture of a hand held with p0016 intake corr. code.
So, it does set them both but I have only seen one(intake) at this point.
2) At idle, the PCM desired and actual intake cam position was about 8 degrees. The duty cycle(%) was around 55%. I was thinking that was high for that small amount of angle change. Is this indicative of an oil pressure issue?
Waveform1 and 2 are basically the same(uploaded accidentally), 3 is after installing the original sensors, and 4 I finally changed the time base so we could see 720 degrees.
CHECK BULLETING #PIP4543D: POSSIBLE MISSING PLASTIC SLEAVES. #PIP4543D: DTCs P0011 P0014 P0016 Or P0017 After Cylinder Head Or Cam Actuator Removal - (Jul 20, 2015) Subject: DTCs P0011 P0014 P0016 Or P0017 After Cylinder Head Or Cam Actuator Removal Models: … Chevrolet Aveo … Pontiac G3 … Pontiac Wave (Canada Only) … Saturn Astra …
Arsen, Can you elaborate. Is this something that is visible, once the solenoid is removed? A camera? Mirror? what does it look like? do you know? Sorry, I found the rest of the tsb. thank you. thanks for your reply. Mike
Please see attached pictures, some time if someone done cylinder head job they forgot into install plastic separators inside cam gears .
Thanks Paul, I misunderstood, Once I saw the original tsb, I understood completely. I don't have any real history, but it does not look to have been apart before. I found the part number on the timing belt. It is a replacement Dayco belt. Don't really know any test for the tensioner, it is spring loaded, and seems to be holding, doesn't make noise, like when they fail. Thanks for your…
Thank you Ray, I am going in this morning. I plan on taking the capture you sent, the one from the 2015, and mine, all in comparison. The calculations I made yesterday may have been a bit convoluted. It was getting late in the day, and I had been looking at the same problem for way too long. Sometimes I just need to get away from a puzzle for a while. So, this morning, with fresh eyes I will…
Michael, I think we can rule out the 2015 Cruze because it shows the intake and exhaust cmp toggles in the ckp's missing toggle every 720*, which is the first waveform. The middle waveform is from your 2012 Cruze and your exhaust cmp is retarded 14.75 deg. Compare it with the known good capture in the third capture. The third capture is from a 2014 Cruze 1.8. Admisso is Admission or Intake cmp…
thanks for all that work Ray, I wish, on the known good that people save, they would unplug the solenoids. What I came up with is quite similar on the exhaust, Around 13-15 degrees retarded. The intake is off around 27 degrees advanced, Unplug the vvt and that becomes 41 degrees. So, my conclusions were that I have a late exhaust and an early intake. That would tend to make me rule out crank…
This is the 2014 Cruze 1.8 cmp ckp with the OCV sol disconnected and the OCV connected.
use the scan tool functions to advance the intake and retard the exhaust, and see if one can respond faster than the other. Specifically if the one setting the DTC is slowest. You may need another similar GM to compare with. What bothers me is your correlation codes are not setting all the time, and you commanded and measured agree. I suspect they are reacting too slowly at times. Did you…
Ray I just found a description of the system from si. Oil pressure that is applied to the fixed vanes will rotate a specific camshaft in relationship to the crankshaft. The movement of the intake camshafts will advance the intake valve timing. The movement of the exhaust camshafts will retard the exhaust valve timing. That would indicate, that if both of my solenouds were not fully closing, I…
Once I saw at a nearby shop they had one and the scan data for cam timing desired vs actual was bouncing around, turned out they had damaged the cam trigger/teeth.
John, Thanks for the reply. Mine doesn't bounce around. Actual/desired agree. The only abnormality is the fact that, the duty cycle for the intake is at 55% to adjust 8 degrees. Which, I thought was excessive. By that data, The computer would only be able to adjust the cam timing 16 degrees at 100%, which I don't think is normal. Thanks Mike
Not necessarily, oil pressure, engine load and RPM will play a role in percentage of duty cycle. It is not a linear function.
Paul, Thanks for pointing that out. Geoff also made a point, along those lines, that I like. He said to test the cams while I move them with the scab tool and compare. How quick they respond and percentage required for a given movement. Thanks to both of you. Working by myself, I have no one to bounce things off of. DN is a blessing. Mike
I agree with Ray, the scope shows it is off about 15 degrees. Which I would think is 1 tooth. The marks you have a picture of seem to show the cams in time. I would still suspect something holding the exhaust phaser open, like the possibility of a missing oil sleeve.
Richard, Thanks for taking your time. phasers are a large possibility. If you don't mind would you look at the post I just replied to Ray, tell me what you think. Thanks Mike
It is fixed. Thanks to all who replied. Every answer was good. Ray helped a lot because he was able to come up with a Cam/crank Sync. The Intake was 15-20* advanced, and the exhaust was the same retarded. Although the timing marks lined up in the front on the cam gears, when I finally pulled the valve cover and looked at the rear of the cams, it was obvious that the alignment tool was not going…