2015 Western Star 4700 Dd13 No Crank

Mahlon Owner/Technician Maryland Posted   Latest   Edited  
Resolved
Heavy Duty
2015 Western Star 4700SB 12.8L (DD13)
No Crank / No Start

Have a DD13 that cut off while idling then no crank. Customer hooked up battery charger and tried. No luck. They held key to start and tapped starter and the engine started. Drove to my shop. I did a quick scan with prolink and had inactive codes for high voltage in mcm and tcm. I attributed this to the battery charger output. Checked starter wiring. Ok. Checked battery wiring. Ok. Looked at MCM and TCM voltages on prolink. Had battery voltage. Released Vehicle with no problem found. They drove for 20 minutes and the vehicle cut off again, no crank. towed to shop. This time i hooked up with DDDL. Attached is screen shots of fault codes. The codes in the ACM were caused by my unplugging the ACM. Had active codes in MCM SPN 3599 FMI 4 and SPN 168 FMI 1. The diagnostic information for 3599/4 suggest an issue with the ACM heater driver. I unplugged the 120 pin connector from the ACM and rechecked codes. 3599/4 still active which suggests a failure in the ACM. Performed diagnostic for 168/1. Checked voltage drop with key on from battery to 4 ground pins and 4 B+ pins at MCM and B+ and ground to CPC. All voltage drops were less than .020 volts which suggests the wiring is ok. However, the diagnostic procedure stops after checking voltage drop suggesting that wiring is the only thing that could cause 168/1. MCM battery voltage on laptop is about 8 volts. I'm not too familiar with detroit so my questions are as follows: Why is 3599/4 in the MCM when it supposedly has to do with the ACM? Why does DDDL list 3599/4 as "MCM internal injector power supply failed low" if it has to do with ACM? Can a failed ACM cause a no crank? Is my problem the ACM, MCM, or both? If both why did 2 modules fail at once? Can the MCM have an internal failure and set 168/1? Thanks in advance for your help!

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Glenn Owner/Technician
Texas
Glenn
 

Hi Mahlon, Don't get scanner blinded. I recommend Go back to basics, loosen, clean and retighten all cable connections, especially at the starter. After that spray some battery cable preservative on all connections. Wet, cold and road salt produce a thin film of corrosion that will disrupt what appear visually to be good connections. Once completed, clear all memory by disconnecting the main…

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Agree
Mark Engineer
Colorado
Mark
 

Mahlon Not sure if the battery group has the large connectors with either 8 gauge or 10 gauge wires. Even though connected (and sometimes with a large BUSS fuse), there is terminal “fretting” or a terminal is melted inside the connector. Since you saw 8 VDC it is possible we have high voltage drop. I use Stabillant 22A (made in Canada) youtube​.​com/watch?v=H74jiG…

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Interesting
Joel Owner/Technician
New York
Joel
 

By looking at your active codes I believe it is possible that you have an injector shorting out. I would take care of your 168 code first. That is a low battery voltage code for the mcm. If you are reading 8 volts on your laptop in the mcm I would recheck the battery power and grounds on the 21 pin connector of the mcm. If that is ok I would take the valve cover off and unhook the injectors 1 at…

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Mahlon Owner/Technician
Maryland
Mahlon
 

It sound like your saying the 3599 has nothing to do with the ACM but instead the MCM. That makes sense since the odds of 2 module failures at the same time is unlikely without another issue frying them. It also would be unlikely for 2 modules to fail, both correct their faults then both fail again. An injector intermittent short is completely plausible. Just out of curiosity, Do you thinks it's…

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Joel Owner/Technician
New York
Joel
 

Yes I did It wasnt that great in prodemand. I have the Detroit repair info on a computer at the garage. Which I can take a look at on Monday. the mcm and the acm can set the same code #. With your truck your code is in the mcm so that’s the path you want chase. I don’t think I would unplug the 120 pin connector It such a pain to get off and that would set all kinds of code. I would check to make…

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Mahlon Owner/Technician
Maryland
Mahlon
 

I tried unplugging the valve cover harness. Still had both 3599 and 168. i know it's a pain but I unplugged the 120 pin at the MCM. Still had the 3599 and the 168. That should've eliminated the any external short of a component drawing down the voltage. Looked at MCM voltage on laptop. Still had 8.192 volts for MCM. CPC was 12.65 and APC was 12.0. i checked voltage at the batteries and it is…

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Josh Diagnostician
Pennsylvania
Josh
 

The ACM and MCM can have the same fault numbers thats normal. your 3599 code is more than likely due to low supply to the MCM.

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Mahlon Owner/Technician
Maryland
Mahlon Update
 

I was convinced it was the MCM and I was right. Couldn't get new or reman MCM and no lead time; had to go with used (not a choice I would go with unless I absolutely had to). Installed and it solved my crank issue and engine started; but had bank 2 misfires and active SPN 2798 FMI 3 bank 2 injectors shorted to B+. Diag info told me to unplug rear injector harness at rocker cover, KOEO check for…

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Mahlon Owner/Technician
Maryland
Mahlon Resolution
 

Installed another used MCM. Only had codes related to wrong programming in MCM at KOEO. Started and engine ran on 6 cylinders. Programmed MCM and all codes gone. Restored vehicle and released to customer. What's up with DTNA service information. 3 different codes and the flow charts did not help resolve either code. SPN 168 flow chart said nothing about the MCM could be faulty, but it was. SPN…

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Jorge Mechanic
Quebec
Jorge
 

One of our Cascadia just quit in the shop this week and I have the same codes MCM 3599 FMI 4 and ACM 3599 FMI 4 as well as low battery voltage. Starter won't crank I did replaced starter thinking it was bad.. we will see on Monday how it goes.

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Jorge Mechanic
Quebec
Jorge
 

Is there a way to check MCM is in good order? Like measuring resistance?

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Mahlon Owner/Technician
Maryland
Mahlon
 

Not really. It's pretty much eliminate everything else that could cause your codes, then replace the MCM. Do you have a code for low battery voltage or do you just see it on the scan tool? What is battery voltage on the scan tool? What is actual battery voltage measured at the batteries? What kind of scanner are you using?

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Jorge Mechanic
Quebec
Jorge
 

I'm using DDDL yes and there's a code for low battery spn 168 FMI 1. Actual voltage is within specs though, harness checks ok. One of my main concerns is that starter won't crank even when I apply power to relay starter!! Weird.

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Mahlon Owner/Technician
Maryland
Mahlon
 

I don't understand why it wouldn't crank like that. However, the signal to actuate the starter comes from the MCM so low voltage into or out of MCM would cause no crank. I believe it could cause the 3599/4 in the MCM as well. These are the exact same conditions I had except I didn't have the 3599/4 in the ACM; only the MCM. I would check for power at starter activation terminal while in crank…

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Rex Technical Support Specialist
Ohio
Rex
 

Just came across this 04-17-22. I have this exact situation. I do have DDDL and it is reporting 3599 4 Under the MCM. I have load tested the power and grounds at the 21 pin with my trust headlight that draws around 4 amps and tested with a LoadPro. Powers and grounds are good. Will try unhooking the injector harness. Per customer info this problem seemed to develop over time. A slow motion…

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