05 F150 5.4 3V Phasers

Anthony Owner/Technician Montana Posted   Latest   Edited  
Unsolved
Propulsion
2005 Ford F-150 XL 5.4L (5) 4-spd (4R70W)
P0174 — System Too Lean Bank 2
P0020-11 — "A" Camshaft Position Actuator "A" Control Circuit/Open Bank 2 — Circuit Short To Ground

Replaced driver side camshaft and both phasers, tensioner, chains kit 3 times but it keeps destroying the driver side phaser and after it warms up it runs really rough and at high rpms it rattles on deceleration. Not sure what to do now and customer is getting impatient. No scarring on either cam or caps or no restrictions in oil journeys. Any ideas?

0
Helpful
Interesting
Missing Info
Arath Diagnostician
Texas
Arath
 

Did you replaced the oil pump with the upgraded meiling 360hv? I’ve seen big differences between stock one and the 360hv fixing a lot of rattling even on Chinese new phasers it is important you do if you haven’t changed the pump

+4
Ð Awarded
Agree
Helpful
Anthony Owner/Technician
Montana
Anthony
 

I haven’t but I will tomorrow. Thanx

0
Ð Awarded
Kent Mechanic
South Dakota
Kent
 

I would hook up a oil gauge and see what the oil pressure is. When the guides break its not uncommon for them to plug up the oil screen on the pickup tube, restricting oil flow. Also check the cam phaser actuator solenoid for plugged screens, or the housing that it goes into for restrictions. You can try to see the oil pickup tube screen through the oil drain plug with an inspection camera.

+3
Ð Awarded
Helpful
Anthony Owner/Technician
Montana
Anthony
 

Solenoids are new. They came new in the last 3 timing kits. I’ll look at screen tomorrow. Thanx

0
Ð Awarded
Stephen Owner/Technician
British Columbia
Stephen
 

I’m not at my computer to look up that code but it’s a circuit code so makes me wonder if there isn’t an electrical issue causing the failure. If I was Bernie Thompson I’d probably be scoping the actuator command vs the cam sensor signals to see if or where there is a breakdown. Also as mentioned checking oil pressure. also I’m sure you know but there have been many issues with some aftermarket…

0
Ð Awarded
Anthony Owner/Technician
Montana
Anthony
 

I did the key on engine off code check using noid light and verified on demand signal to solenoid. Gonna check oil pressure in the morning. I know the instrument cluster gauge shows oil pressure but not sure how much. And 1st timing kit was eBay 2nd was Napa 3rd was an oem parts direct supplier. All 3 failed within the first hour.

0
Ð Awarded
Marlin Technician
Oregon
Marlin
 

Using a noid light is only a partial test. There is no oil pressure gauge on that vehicle, only a needle indicator which is controlled by a basic switch. IIRC, the switch state changes around 5-8 psi. You also referred to separate issues, mechanical and electrical. A mechanical fault of any timing component will not cause a circuit code, unless massive failure destroys a CMP or CKP sensor.

0
Ð Awarded
William Technician
West Virginia
William
   

What is the HOT running oil pressure @ 500-700rpm? If 22 psi or lower replace the engine. This is called the "ford death rattle". It plagues most 03 to 07 f150s with the 5.4. I learned it from having a ford mechanic mentor. He was always told that its best to just replace the engine once it starts.

+6
Ð Awarded
Agree
Helpful
Thanks
Ruben Owner/Technician
Ohio
Ruben
 

When i get these in the very first step you need to do is do a oil pressure check when hot at idle. There are specs but as William stated 22 psi should be there. At one time ford was saying minimum spec was 15 psi hot idle. However i always like to see 20 or above. Also i always change out the oil pump to the melling hv and switch it over to 5w30 and on the timing kit only use ford parts. I have…

0
Ð Awarded
Jason Technician
New York
Jason
 

2 times now, I have found a piece of debris in the small housing behind the phaser. The debris partially clogged an oil port and caused all types of timing issues. Since you're going in again, remove the plate and make sure there is nothing in the cavity behind it.

+1
Ð Awarded
Agree
Caleb Diagnostician
Indiana
Caleb
 

You posted a circuit fault for bank 2 cam solenoid. If that is actually true and the fault returns you must fix that first. If the solenoid is not properly controlling the oil flow to the phaser due to the circuit fault then there will be rattling an performance issues. These solenoids have IGN power on one side and PWM ground side control by PCM on the other. After fixing the fault if you still…

+1
Ð Awarded
David Owner/Technician
Alberta
David
 

If you disconnect the actuator solenoids and the rattles do not come back, it is more likely an oil volume problem. If you haven't replaced the actuators, the one giving problems could be worn on the hydraulic valve side and leaks off too much to keep the phaser timed properly. I will change out the oil pump to the Melling 340HV every time I do chains on those engines. You do not have to remove…

0
Ð Awarded
Eddy Owner/Technician
California
Eddy
 

Are you using original phasers? I’ve seen this happen with aftermarket phasers.

+1
Ð Awarded
Agree
David Owner/Technician
Alberta
David
 

I wonder what you actually mean when you say “destroying the driver side phaser”? My own experience with aftermarket phasers has been very good. I am not sure what the big complaint is. Just saying they do not work is not a great way to understand why.

0
Ð Awarded
Glenn Owner/Technician
Texas
Glenn
 

Hi Anthony, These are critical about having enough oil pressure and use only Ford phasers. These engines were not one of Ford's better ideas, but people bought into the advertising like moths to a flame. For many of these, I have disabled the phasers and installed timing pucks to lock the cam phasers. This basically converts the engine to a conventional fixed timing and it will run fine on…

+1
Ð Awarded
Agree
Phil Technician
Massachusetts
Phil
 

There are kits that include a tuner that are CARB legal and should satisfy an area that has emissions testing requirements. livernoismotorsports​.​com/product/LPP822…

0
Ð Awarded
Dwight Owner/Technician
California
Dwight
 

I may get hammered for this, if was me, I would install a phaser delete kit in it and be done with it. I've done many of these kits, and they are CARB approved. Search ebay and youtube to get an idea what is involved.

0
Ð Awarded
Rudy Technician
Utah
Rudy
 

Phaser delete!!

+1
Ð Awarded
Agree
Caleb Diagnostician
Indiana
Caleb
 

So confused by these responses. While all the info here is correct, he has a solenoid circuit fault. Not sure how we can help until that is fixed

+1
Ð Awarded
Glenn Owner/Technician
Texas
Glenn
 

Hi Caleb, These Ford oil pressure solenoid operated timing systems just get worse with age. So, doing a phaser delete kit and disabling the solenoids and adding a tuner has proven to be a very reliable repair. This effectively disables the variable timing operations both electronically and physically. From my experience, engine power and reliability are increased. These systems never produced…

+2
Ð Awarded
Agree
Marlin Technician
Oregon
Marlin
 

Please provide an example of this “miracle mileage” advertisement.

0
Ð Awarded
Inappropriate
Marlin Technician
Oregon
Marlin
 

You need to understand fads. Delete/cancel is currently a fad.

-2
Ð Awarded
Disagree
Political
David Owner/Technician
Alberta
David
 

Do you think that code is absolutely responsible for the rough running or explains whatever destroying the left phaser means? Probably if he was to try it with the actuators disconnected he may learn something.

0
Ð Awarded
Caleb Diagnostician
Indiana
Caleb
 

Like I said in my first post. The circuit fault needs fixed before anything else is done. Im not saying that will fix it. But the guy says he has put 3 drivers side phasers in it. Seems like there may be another issue is all Im saying. Also as I said in the first post that everyones info is correct about this engine. I just think its a leading him astray until he fixes circuit fault.

+1
Ð Awarded
Agree
David Owner/Technician
Alberta
David
 

Caleb, I do not doubt the fault is a problem but what he describes sounds more complicated. Maybe not? Nevertheless, if he just disconnects and his phasers stay parked at home he won't need to pull it apart to change phasers..

0
Ð Awarded
Glenn Owner/Technician
Texas
Glenn
 

Hi David, Good point, disconnecting the actuators would allow the phaser to stay in the “home” position and the engine should run fine. If it is still having noise and issues, it has a mechanical failure of the timing phaser.

0
Ð Awarded
Alan Owner/Technician
Mississippi
Alan
 

Anthony, I agree with the cam phaser delete 100% especially on a older vehicle like you have I've done 40 or 50 of them without not one failure. And I can do them for a whole lot cheaper than seven or eight hundred dollars we're talkin about $300 tops maybe not that much just mail me back if you want me to look up my information and I'll tell you what you need to do and it all starts with our…

0
Ð Awarded
Glenn Owner/Technician
Texas
Glenn
 

Hi Alan, Glad to hear you chime in. I recall you have worked many of these. Hopefully, Anthony kept the original Ford phasers so they can be modified with the lock out pucks, that would make it nuch easier for him. Anthony, there is a You Tube channel by Fordmakuloco. This technician has many videos performing phase elimination procedures and lots of great repairs on these 3 valve Fords.

0
Ð Awarded
Alan Owner/Technician
Mississippi
Alan
 

Glenn, I have had some customers in in the past and according to the customer the vehicles have been repaired previously with new sprockets chains and guides the works. We would pull the valve covers first and every time the sprocket had failed and had Dorman wrote all over it. The OEM gears rarely fail. To save the customer money I will go to Pull-A-Part or U-Pull-It find a good clean engine…

+1
Ð Awarded
Anthony Owner/Technician
Montana
Anthony
 

new phasers, tensioners, cams, chain and guides. Also oil pump hv Mel longs and all previously mentioned parts from Ford dealership. Truck ran ok for about an hour. No codes, no rattle. This morning it’s back at my shop with failed phasers :(

0
Ð Awarded
Alan Owner/Technician
Mississippi
Alan
 

Anthony, Exactly what part of the phaser is damaged. I would love to see some photos if you can post a few showing the damage. I think it's a Oil related issue causing it .I've seen it before and it's always on the driver side but if you totally eliminated the movement of the variable timing it cannot damage it any longer. If it was a 2022 Ford F150 I would have to say we need to research and…

0
Ð Awarded
Anthony Owner/Technician
Montana
Anthony
 

Let me try to download the phasers pics but the pin that goes into the slot of cam was shearing off and the coil sprin in front and the tone ring were falling of the phaser

0
Ð Awarded
Doug Owner/Technician
California
Doug
   

Hi Anthony, glad you got it figured out finally! So the second time it came back was of course because of the low oil pressure in the clogged up oil screen and that also ruined the new phaser? Again.

0
Ð Awarded
Doug Owner/Technician
California
Doug
 

Hey Alan, if you have time and come across that vendor I would like to know! Thank you.

0
Ð Awarded
Anthony Owner/Technician
Montana
Anthony
 

Ok guys first thank you all for hints, help, suggestions, and criticism. Pulled the oil pan and inside the bowl of the oil pick up tube was a what looked like a chunk of film almost like plastic but disintegrated with carb cleaner. Removed and replaced oil pick up tube and hv oil pump again then both phasers and tensioners one more time and now the truck runs great. Has transmission issue but…

+1
Ð Awarded