Training: Expectations, Short comings, Wishes. Ideas?

Chris Diagnostician Commack, New York Posted   Latest   Edited  

How many of you attend some form of training? What kind do you attend if any? If you are an employee, is the training paid for or reimbursed? If you are an employer, what is your expectation for your employees to train? Are there any incentives offered?

If you do attend training, what do you look for in the presentation and/or material?

What are some if the thing that turn you off in a class?

Has there been anything that has changed your outlook on your chosen profession?

I'm looking to start a conversation about this. I feel if enough is shared, we all will work together to take this industry to the next level.

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Michael Diagnostician
Holt, Michigan
Michael
 

I attend training on a somewhat regular basis and most of it is at my own expense. There is no reward that I recieve from the shop but I do gain the knowledge to be better at the job at hand. One very important thing to any training is using it immediately when you get back into the shop so to retain what you learned. If shops hope to have a diag guy then they need to build one and not having

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Samuel Technician
Somers Point, New Jersey
Samuel
 

LOVE THIS RESPONSE!!! ON POINT !!!

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Matthew Technician
Lawrence, Massachusetts
Matthew
 

Chris, great topic! I believe there is no such thing as too much training and I attend any event that's feasible. I prefer in-person training vs online because even if the class is not what you wanted or expected it's a great opportunity to network with other techs. Sometimes you learn more at break time than during the class! We pay for all of our employees training as well as certification

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Chris Diagnostician
Commack, New York
Chris
 

How about multi-day training events that you have to travel to?

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Matthew Technician
Lawrence, Massachusetts
Matthew
 

I've attended Vision twice now and it really set off a spark inside me. So many great minds in one place is truly inspiring. I've also attended TST's Big Event several times and highly recommend it. Being a small shop it's tough for me to travel far. Any day away from the shop directly effects my bottom line.

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Bill Technician
Rosetown, Saskatchewan
Bill
 

I enjoy a course that you learn from. I found often times that the dealer training I took was geared towards filling out answers in a book. I like to know how a system operates and find the aftermarket training seems to do a better job of that than the factory training I have taken. Explanations of currents,voltages and pressures are explained instead of procedures. I like it when a class is

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Chris Diagnostician
Commack, New York
Chris
 

What I meant was, was there ever a class you attended that Reignited your passion for your career? Completely changed your outlook? For me, it was the first time I took a Luke Murray BMW class. Before that I only took the local parts house training/sales session. That class showed me there is a better class of training out there, and it was accessible to me. It ignited a passion in me and is

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Chris Diagnostician
Commack, New York
Chris
 

Also, what about training books? My one biggest gripe is a book that is useless without the class or power point. A good training book is one that can stand on its own, and can be reviewed and used as a reference later on.

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Matthew Technician
Lawrence, Massachusetts
Matthew
 

I agree. Training material that can easily be referenced in the bay is key. Some are too long, wordy and tough to reference quickly. Often the hand-out is just a printed version of the PowerPoint. Not all presentations transfer well into reference material. The best are laid out logically, concise, and have easy to reference specs and testing procedures.

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Bill Technician
Rosetown, Saskatchewan
Bill
 

I took a Scot Manna course. It was above and beyond the factory training I was familiar with. It maybe appealed to me because he explains how things work instead of how to read procedures in a book. I enjoy John Thornton video's. Some of my connections are very smart people that teach me a lot. I enjoy reading engineering books. I would say that none of these really changed my outlook or career

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Scott Manager
Claremont, California
Scott
 

In regards to training content, how about anything that provides a deep look at the inner-workings of "stuff" and why it exists, how it works, what strategies are in place, etc? For decades, mechanics have been figuring stuff out by disassembly (obviously some things you cannot disassemble). For me, I'm a visual learner which helps me understand and correlate the conditions I'm see on a

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Chris Diagnostician
Commack, New York
Chris
   

Exactly Scott! This is why I did that with my class. I broke the the complicated stuff down to its component level. I too find this to be the best way to learn. If I know how something is made, I can diagnose it better. I believe that those types of classes should have many component breakdowns, diagrams, and animations.

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Michael Mobile Technician
Clinton, Utah
Michael
 

For the last two months I have been doing ASE prep training for a 25 store repair chain. The first class was about 4 hours long. We had three hours in the classroom, a quick lunch and another hour in the shop. We bugged three cars to apply the classroom learning. The feedback from the first class was that the classroom time was too long. Another was that the classroom time did not go into enough

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Chris Diagnostician
Commack, New York
Chris
 

That's great. As a hands on learner, the hands on classes are the best. I'm an advocate of more hands on training. Some trainers say that it's hard to get techs to go to hands on training, so they cancel the curriculum. Some people see this as a reason to stay away from teaching in this style. I see it as a challenge to create great material. I am currently in the beginning some hands on

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Rick Technician
Dracut, Massachusetts
Rick
 

Hi Scott, This type of class sounds very interesting. When we know how a system is supposed to function, it makes diagnosing it easier. To often service information does not give us all the details we're looking for. Taking something apart to figure it out is not always an option. Noticed your teaching it at the ASA PA Super Saturday event in October.

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Scott Manager
Claremont, California
Scott
 

Hi Rick, My goal is for attendees to leave with a deeper understanding of some of the special operations taking place within the ECU and to gain a little more perspective with understand some of the data the scantool produces, simple formulas, and some how's and why's etc. For example, how do you suppose this spark control function came about? Study the image and let me know what you see. I

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Rick Technician
Dracut, Massachusetts
Rick
 

Sign up for this class because I was very intrigued. Not sure 4 hours is going to be enough. Like the different approach your taking.

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Bill Technician
Rosetown, Saskatchewan
Bill
 

What are you looking for? The reason that they built retarded timing into the software for noise reduction? I would say I do not know. I did not realize that was a thing. At what temperature is this table active and what engine is this?

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Scott Manager
Claremont, California
Scott
   

Hi Bill, I believe this came about in the late 90’s early 2000’s with the introduction of short skirt pistons which generated quite a bit clatter. I can only speculate because I remember seeing either a PI or bulletin about the noise and a fix that was on the way. If this indeed was the fix, think of the warranty cost savings vs a mechanical repair. As for the qualifiers, I’ll dig into that

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Bill Technician
Rosetown, Saskatchewan
Bill
 

Well that makes sense then. Reduced combustion pressure or BMEP until the pistons fit the hole tighter. Nice. I did not make the connection.

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Bill Technician
Rosetown, Saskatchewan
Bill
 

I guess another side benefit to retarding the timing would be more heat to help expand the pistons sooner. Neat.

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Bill Technician
Rosetown, Saskatchewan
Bill
 

I found a similar table from a GM GEN3 engine, and it includes temperatures. It also has high temp correction in this table.

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Samuel Technician
Somers Point, New Jersey
Samuel
 

THIS IS GREAT!!! Many have already touched on the fact that MOST of us pay for our own advancement....which is ok to me....Yes it is awesome when the shop will cover the bill. However, our training and development should start as our responsibility. (imo) Classes, NACE, Diagnostic Network, IATN, etc. As for the shops that want Diag guys but only give them grunt work....DUHHHHH....SMH....VERY

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Bruce Technician
Spring Hill, Tennessee
Bruce
 

I have convinced my employer to pay for local training for all the techs in the shop. And he has paid the registration fee for Vision, ATE, and a local ATG class for me this year. I paid all my travel, hotel, and food expenses. Any other training I've done I have paid for out of my pocket.

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Chris Diagnostician
Commack, New York
Chris
 

I hope if we show the importance of good training it will become more abundant. These events aren’t all about the training, it’s also about the networking. It’s great to meet like minds that are willing to help you with an issue.

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Michael Technician
Shelton, Washington
Michael
 

Chris this is a great discussion topic and I wouldn't expect anything less from you sir. A topic that I only could hope would resonate within the entire industry to include some of my colleagues. I've been a tech for over 20 years starting in the industry with the passion and a broom in hand. Most of my career I was a heavy line tech and my day to day was chasing the clock to get paid. Going

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Luis Technician
Lake Forest, California
Luis
 

I’m a Tech. When I was at Honda& Acura dealer I went to Torrance CA Training center. IST individualized skills training. In order to go to the training center you must have completed 100% of all your self studies online (interactive network iN). At the training center they give you classroom teaching and hands on training, they bug cars and you have to figure out what the problem is. After

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Michael Technician
Shelton, Washington
Michael
 

Luis I like your comment on a hands on and classroom training as I agree both would be extremely valuable combined. I've attended a few and they where good and I wish I saw more of them. When I was at Kia the instructor did his best to perform a good class with having his oversight committee putting his hands behind his back on trying to accomplish it. So the diagnosis was a little easy. But

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Chris Diagnostician
Commack, New York
Chris
 

I’m glad that this topic elicited such a response. It means there is passion in this industry. We are not alone in our journey to be better. As far as hands on trainig, hold on. The future is going to be bright.

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Michael Mobile Technician
Clinton, Utah
Michael
 

Hi Luis, I am not aware of any hands on in Southern California but there is an operational shop in Concord called Auto Electric and Fuel. They have a classroom off the shop and do classes there. Their shop policy is they fix or it or you don't pay. I have not been over there for a few years but my take is that the classes include some hands on work. I would be happy to drive over and teach

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Luis Technician
Lake Forest, California
Luis
 

Hi Michael, Thank you, let me look into it, if I find a sponsor shop, how much do you charge per class,? Per tech attending? what do you have to offer and how long would the class be?

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Michael Mobile Technician
Clinton, Utah
Michael
 

Lots of factors to consider. I don't have set pricing yet. Best to contact me on email or give me a call. …

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Joe Technician
Roanoke Rapids, North Carolina
Joe
 

Our shop takes Carquest CTI classes. They pay for the time we would have been at work and the fuel to travel there, it’s about 35 miles away. Sad part is the shop pays a fee for everyone from the shop to go, only 2 or 3 go. I pay for any other training I attend. They did reimburse me after I went to the Aste event our state igo puts on over a weekend. I did enjoy that, but most of the classes

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Martin Diagnostician
Burleson, Texas
Martin
 

I attend all the training that I can. Paid by my employer. The company I work for also does a yearly training event that has some, if not all, of the top guys in the industry. They also have carquest cti online training available. I haven't done any of them but I've heard good things. For the younger guys in the business, the classes held by the auto parts stores and such were a big help for me

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William Diagnostician
Ashland, Virginia
William
 

I go to a fair amount of training (ATG, NAPA, ATA, many others) and I also do some of my own training classes. The biggest issue I have when attending training is a class is billed as "advanced" or "high level", but the instructor gets bogged down with students who have no grasp of the basics of the subject. It seems no one will come to the "beginner" class because they feel they don't need it…

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Jim Curriculum Developer
Frederick, Maryland
Jim
 

There is so much truth in this sentence you wrote. "It seems no one will come to the "beginner" class because they feel they don't need it, when really they do!" Title a class "Basic Electricity" and very few select it. Title the class "Advanced Electronics for Automotive Technicians" and you're off to the races. Effective prerequisites for class would be nice but are difficult to implement.

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Robert Diagnostician
Ballston, New York
Robert
   

I am a technician. I’m in the minority as to where my employer is happy to pay all of the expenses required for training. It’s a win win for both of us. They get a qualified efficient employee willing to learn and I get personal satisfaction and a paycheck I can not provide a time as to when a class changed my outlook on the automotive repair industry. I can provide you with the seminair that

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David Diagnostician
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
David
   

Robert I couldn't agree with you more about everything, in fact, the TST Big Event you are speaking of may have been my first Big Boy class as well. My brain hurt for about a week after. Dave DeCoursey misfire diagnostics in the morning and John Thorton's Audi/VW GDI in the afternoon, sound like the same? Been addicted to training ever since, that's why a group of us decided to make Super

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Robert Diagnostician
Ballston, New York
Robert
 

Signed up for this years Super Saturday as soon as the registration opened. I read so many great reviews about it last year I feel I can’t afford to miss it. Looking forward to it. It seems these multi class Saturday training events are becoming the most popular form of training.

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David Diagnostician
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
David
 

Looking forward to catching up with you there

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Robert Diagnostician
Ballston, New York
Robert
 

Some suggestions for training classes if any of he class curriculum developers are reading this. I would like to see some non technical classes. A class for Automotive Math and it’s practical uses. Measuring speed of an object. Determining size of objects such as cylinders. Finding the volume of a cylinder so it can be determined how much air would be required to fully fill that cylinder…

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Richard Instructor
Palmetto, Florida
Richard
 

Robert, I know a few curriculum developers are on here and I hope they read your post! Great ideas! Understand the absolute basic math, chemistry and physics required for an automobile to operate and have a proper grasp of the written and verbal skills required to convey that professionally to the customer. Its not too basic, it’s exactly what the industry needs!!

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