XG350, 3.5L - Crank No Start, CKP Sensor Already Replaced

Ethan Educator South Dakota Posted   Latest  
Discussion
Driveability
2003 Hyundai XG350 3.5L 5-spd (F5A51)
No Codes
Crank / No Start
Spark Confirmed

Hello,

I am trying to assist an old friend who owns a repair shop in a small midwest town. They took on this project and replaced the crankshaft position sensor as they learned of common failures (with very little testing done). After symptom of no start continued they checked timing belt and found that is needed to be replaced, however I do not know specifics of what was confirmed to be wrong with belt. After belt replacement the engine ran for a brief moment and returned back to the crank no strart symptom.

After speaking with tech on the phone, and looking into the timing procedure for this engine, I have a couple of questions: 

  1. Does anyone know what the 7.3 pitch and 8.7 pitch shown in the picture of Right Bank cam gears is refering to?
  2. Is it common for damage to occur to the crankshaft position sensor reluctor, as caution is placed on taking special care to not damage this during belt removal?

I am thinking that I would like to know we have a good signal from the crank sensor through entire crankshaft rotation, as that is an area he has had his hands on, then move onto other checks. I can have him check for the On/Off of the hall effect sensor with a volt meter. He states that he has not yet done a compression test (which is frustrating) because 1/2 of plugs under intake, and he does not have inductive amp clamp to obtain relitive compression. It does not run off a shot of starter fluid he has stated. So I am looking for other methods to suggest since he is limited in tooling. My concern is weither the timing is actually correct at this time.

I know this post may be frustrating to some. It also is for me due to the lack of information I can obtain from the tech. Any help is appriciated if someone more familiar with Hyundai 3.5L knows a common I can suggest he looks.

Thank you.

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Helpful
Jj Technician
Massachusetts
Jj Default
   

Cranking cadence is a pretty good low-tech indicator of valve timing. Disable injectors and crank the engine for 10-20 seconds, there shouldn't be any real deviation in the sounds heard while cranking. If it sounds like the engine "skips" in a pattern then most likely timing is an issue.

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Ethan Educator
South Dakota
Ethan Default
 

Yes, I would like him to check this as he lacks amp clamp/graphing meter/scope. I will suggest this as well.

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James Instructor
New Jersey
James Default
 

There is a tool that holds the cam gears in alignment (pitch reference). There' also a special procedure to set belt tensioner adjustment. To get back to the no start... if they is a no spark concern the ignition fail sensor IFS is most likely culprit. If IFS is bad suspect ignition coil being root cause. Power to coils?

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Steve Technician
Pennsylvania
Steve Default
 

This is a Mitsubishi designed engine. The most common "no start" condition after a timing belt replacement is the reluctor becomes dislodged from the crank sprocket during disassembly and causes the spark timing to be "off" even though the base engine timing is perfect. There is a dot on the sprocket that should align with a notch in the reluctor.

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Ethan Educator
South Dakota
Ethan Default
   

I did mention to him the NOTES listed in installation instructions regarding caution with reluctor. The scanner is showing Engine RPM but of course does not mean reluctor is in proper location to assist with spark/fuel timing. Thanks

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Ethan Educator
South Dakota
Ethan Default
 

Based on first conversation had with tech, there is a very strong spark out of coils. But I will double check! Thank you

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James Instructor
New Jersey
James Default
 

Ethan. Here's a pic of trigger Steve is referring to. It's a good possibility.

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Dan Owner/Technician
Texas
Dan Default
 

...James...Would that be the (pink) blade that is entering (or exiting) the hall sensor from the left side (depending on rotational direction) ??...it looks like it could be very delicate...Dan H. ...South Texas...

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James Instructor
New Jersey
James Default
 

Yep.

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Dan Owner/Technician
Texas
Dan Default
 

...Ethan...Tell him to slap his hand over the entire throttle body OPENING...and CRANK on it....does it pull a good suction on his hand when he does that ??? (as it SHOULD)...Dan H. ...South Texas...

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John Owner
New York
John Default
 

Ethan, I have detailed scope shots and photos of this issue on my old blog jwrautomotivediagnostics​.​blogspot​.​com October 2012 post named Korean Chaos. Hope it helps.

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Martin Diagnostician
Texas
Martin Default
 

It should be noted that the crank bolt should never be reused on this engine.

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Dale Diagnostician
South Dakota
Dale Default
 

Did they have the proper repair information for this Ethan? I've never dealt with this car engine specifically but my daughter has one that I have to do the timing belt on once the weather gets a little warmer outside as that's where I spend our cold Dakota winters. A warm shop would be a luxury. I'm over the other end of the state from Rapid City in Sioux Falls. I have a 04 Hyundai Santa Fe…

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Ethan Educator
South Dakota
Ethan Default
 

Hello, the information i have looked at comes from Identifix and ProDemand. It gives decent steps for the process but missing some information such as the tooling required to achieve the "pitch" needed on cam gears for one of the heads. (Refer to other comments to see replies regarding this topic). I myself did not work on this car as it is actually on your side of the state in a small town by…

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