VVT Inoperative

Tommy Technician Georgia Posted   Latest   Edited  
Unsolved
Driveability
2013 Kia Sorento LX 2.4L (1) 6-spd (A6LF2)
P0011 — "A" Camshaft Position - Timing Over-Advanced or System Performance Bank 1
P0014 — "B" Camshaft Position - Timing Over-Advanced or System Performance Bank 1
Vehicle Runs Great Just Sets Cel

Currently have a kia sorento that runs great buts sets codes within a mile of driving for p0011 and p0014. I have confirmed on scan tool and lab scope that the camshafts do not advance or retard. I have checked base timing with labscope and with timing marks on vehicle. I made sure that the vvt solenoids work and that the pcm is able to control them which it does for about a mile until its sees that the camshafts do not move and it shuts off the vvt and sets pending codes. Prior to me working on vehicle it had cam senors and vvt solenoids replaced with kia parts. And i replaced the cvvt assemblies based on my findings. Unfortunately nothing has fixed it. Oem testing says that there is an oil control valve (OCV) filter but i can not find any information on where it is located or how to replace it. Any information on this OCV filter would be appreciated. 

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Mauro Owner
Massachusetts
Mauro Default
 

Make sure the solenoid plugs aren't swapped. We had on come in recently with same issues, someone had just done knock sensors on it and had the plugs to vvt solenoids reversed, one was black the other was grey if my memory serves me correct.

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Tommy Technician
Georgia
Tommy Default
 

The solenoids are plugged into the right connectors

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James Instructor
New Jersey
James Default
 

Tommy, the filter is in the blocks deck surface. If it's sludged could be . High mileage engines may also have front journal wear. Caution.. the wrong OCV's may have been installed. 2 different lengths, depends on head style. You could have 2 concerns now. Old parts available?

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Tommy Technician
Georgia
Tommy Default
 

Unfortunately i do not have the old parts. We did order new solenoids from kia so that we can make sure we have the right ones installed should be here tomorrow.

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Dane Technician
Nebraska
Dane Default
 

James, do you happen to know the part numbers of the OCV's? I have a similar situation, engine has been replaced, but OCV's from original engine were used on the replacement engine. OCV's are working, but the phasers are moving very slowly (especially the intake). I can only find one part number for each of the OCV's. Thanks!

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James Instructor
New Jersey
James Default
 

Dane, I can give you Hyundai part numbers. Any Dealership should know the issue and give you the correct OCV. There were 2 valves depending on the cylinder head design. Older style OCV had 3 slots on each opposing side, and you could clearly see the spool valve. Just like looking into a transmission valve body of old ( Ex. 24375-2G200 In. 24355-2G000) , the newer style had 5 circular machined…

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Thanks
Dane Technician
Nebraska
Dane Default
 

Thanks James, I truly appreciate you taking the time to share that information with me! I have the newer style OCV's and that's what the parts store is supplying us with. Unfortunately, I found a few other things wrong with this engine, so it is going to be replaced again..

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Phillip Diagnostician
Alaska
Phillip Default
 

How is oil pressure?

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Tommy Technician
Georgia
Tommy Default
 

Oil pressure appears to be ok but i have not put a mechanical gauge on it. Probably something i should do just to rule it out.

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Phillip Diagnostician
Alaska
Phillip Default
 

I don't see it too often but I do see it. Also have you recorded the VVT data while driving? If their are no pids another option is to drive it with your scope test leads connected.

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Gail Technician
North Carolina
Gail Default
 

I'm assuming you've verified has correct oil filter & oil?

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Tommy Technician
Georgia
Tommy Default
 

Yes there was a tsb on using a kia filter so I made sure it had correct kia filter and correct oil and correct oil level

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Chad Mobile Technician
Florida
Chad Default
 

So what happened?

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James Instructor
New Jersey
James Default
 

Do you have access to a scan tool that shows target and actual cam positions?

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Tommy Technician
Georgia
Tommy Default
 

Yes the actual does not change and only matches target at idle also confirmed this on labscope.

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James Instructor
New Jersey
James Default
 

Have you tried power braking in drive while graphing target and actual? Have you tried grounding OCV at idle while graphing actual?

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Tommy Technician
Georgia
Tommy Default
 

Yes i have tried doing both actual never changes. Went ahead and ordered new vvt solenoids from kia just to make sure we had the right ones installed and they made no difference.

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James Instructor
New Jersey
James Default
 

If you have pwr to the solenoids, and you don't see any movement when grounded. You have a severe oil leak/blockage. Even if the cylinder head journal is worn, you would have some movement. Blockage seems most likely cause. If you have a blockage(ocv filter) you have another problem- the front journal is oiled from the OCV circuit. You may have a bad head at this point too.

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Interesting
Ty Technician
Connecticut
Ty Default
 

James, remember me? lol You know as well as I do, the engine is getting ready to grenade.

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James Instructor
New Jersey
James Default
 

I thought oil psi was checked. Yes, i seen you in Boston last. I was wondering what was taking you so long to jump in on theta concern!

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Ty Technician
Connecticut
Ty Default
 

I thought everybody would have been aware by now LOL. Left Hyundai in 2015, so yeah it's been a while since I was in Shrewsbury

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Ty Technician
Connecticut
Ty Default
 

Those codes will set if there is low oil pressure. There is a huge recall involving that engine for rod bearing failure. Send it to a Kia dealer.

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Tommy Technician
Georgia
Tommy Default
 

Oil pressure was good and no knocking noise. The vehicle had been to dealer multiple times before getting to me and problem was never fixed. We did inform customer about recall and the dealer declined replacement. Customer decided to go no further into finding the issue and ended up selling it to carmax and buying a new vehicle.

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James Instructor
New Jersey
James Default
 

Thanks for the feedback. Maybe someone from carmax will start a thread and we can benefit from the repair. Have a good day Tommy.

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Ty Technician
Connecticut
Ty Default
 

Did you notice if the engine had already been replaced? The recall long block can come with 1 of 2 cylinder heads that require different OCV's. Ordering OCV's by VIN won't necessarily get you the correct valves if the head had been of the other design for that application. I know the car is gone now, but maybe that info will help you in the future.

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Tommy Technician
Georgia
Tommy Default
 

It did appear to have a used engine from another car in it.

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Ty Technician
Connecticut
Ty Default
 

Then I would think you're lucky it's gone LOL

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Tommy Technician
Georgia
Tommy Default
 

Yeah got my ass kicked on this one. As much as i would liked to of fixed it there is a time to call it.

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