Crank cam correlation issue

Maynard Technician Elmira, Ontario Posted   Latest   Edited  
Resolved
Driveability
2016 Land Rover Discovery Sport SE 2.0L (G) 9-spd (9HP48) — SALCP2BG5GH545467
P0016-00

Hi guys,

Hoping we have some Land Rover guys here. This vehicle came in with multiple timing codes P0017 , P0341 being among them. We followed tsb LTB00916NAS2 and replaced the intake cam actuator as outlined. The actuator was physically broken around the stopper pin and the pin and spring were missing. After full reassembly when we drive vehicle it will now produce code P0016-00 at times. (This code set criteria and test procedure is very vague to say the least.) It is cam crank correlation. We did not have this code before the repair altho it is also listed as a possible code in the tsb. 

The code does not set when vehicle is at idle, and it does not seem to set when vehicle is driven very aggressively, but when it is driven normally it will set after a few timing actuations. It can be triggered by throttling it in the bay as well. So now the question, is it likely the base timing is off causing this or is it more likely to be an oil flow or control issue? When actuated on the road it is noted in scan data the intake will reach about -25deg and exhaust 25deg as they are going through the motions. At rest with no actuations the exhaust cam sits at 8deg and intake sits at 11deg. (I dont know if that is cam or crank degrees.)

If someone is familiar with where the trigger fail points are in the base timing I would be very interested to hear. Should both cams be sitting at 0deg? Or is the 3 deg difference from cam to cam an issue? My thinking is this should then also set codes at idle and so on if the primary setting of the timing is an issue?? Some thoughts would be welcomed.

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Craig Technical Support Specialist
Chicago, Illinois
Craig Default
 

Hello Maynard, out of curiosity besides clearing codes have you performed an ECU reset, and then reset and relearned any timing adaptations? Recently had a Mini Cooper that would set timing codes after being driven, had new chains and only a code clear, resetting and relearning everything solved the problem.

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Caleb Diagnostician
Mishawaka, Indiana
Caleb Default
 

I agree with Craig. I'm not going to be a lot of help. However is this the 2.0 EcoBoost engine from Ford?? I believe it is. I do not want to lead you down a hole but there is a known good cam crank in Resoures for a 17 2.0 EcoBoost in a Fusion. I'll post the link when I'm in front of my laptop.

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Maynard Technician
Elmira, Ontario
Maynard Default
   

Thanks Caleb, Jimmy posted a couple wave forms from the Land rovers, I went looking in resources to compare to and did find the 2017 fusion now. I will do some comparisons,

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Caleb Diagnostician
Mishawaka, Indiana
Caleb Default
 

diag​.​net/msg/m4qt278ee3…

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Jimmy Technician
Chattanooga, Tennessee
Jimmy Default
 

Hi Maynard, I worked on a 2013 not long ago for the cam gear as well. Idling the timing was 8 and 11 after the repair, which we thought was odd as well but no codes. have you scoped the cam sensors to verify they are aligned? The special tool we have allows the intake cam to move in the tool so you would need to use a feeler gauge to take up the space. That's where the scope comes in, this…

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William Diagnostician
Austin, Texas
William Default
 

Would you please post that waveform file here ?

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Maynard Technician
Elmira, Ontario
Maynard Update
 

Thank you guys. The scantools we are using have no bidirectional functions at all for Landrover, so relearns were not possible for us. However we were in touch with Landrover and they also recommended relearn. (reprogram they said) so whether that means a relearn or actual software renewal I dont know. So the jury is still out. However I am concerned about a point that Jimmy Burgess also pointed…

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Jimmy Technician
Chattanooga, Tennessee
Jimmy Default
 

I have uploaded the waveforms that I recorded. One of the files is before I took the engine apart. The other file is after repairs, the cams are not perfectly aligned but did not set any codes. The LR2 came back in for additional repairs last week, not engine related, and I scoped the cams only. The pattern looks the same but I did not save the file. I am still new to the pico software so I hope…

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Maynard Technician
Elmira, Ontario
Maynard Default
 

Thank you very much Jimmy. We have the vehicle back now, it is not fixed. So I guess we will be getting back into it on monday. I will try to update later again.

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Maynard Technician
Elmira, Ontario
Maynard Default
 

Sorry can you confirm again please..? The one labeled "after repair" is the good one, no codes? And the other one labeled LR2 where both cams align perfectly but are 9 teeth of crank after sync space was one that had cam codes?

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Maynard Technician
Elmira, Ontario
Maynard Resolution
 

So this one looks done, relearns did not fix the issue, so back in we went and on recommendations from guys here we used feeler blades ontop of the tool (29/1000) to take up the clearance where to tool slides into slots at the back of the cams. Also there was a very slight bend in the tool so it wasn't 100% flat anymore which allowed the "out of time" to be even slightly more exaggerated. So…

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Jimmy Technician
Chattanooga, Tennessee
Jimmy Default
 

Awesome! I am glad that did the trick. Now you can relax and enjoy the holidays.

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