Problems after Programming

Sean Technician Minnesota Posted   Latest  
Discussion
Programming
2007 Chevrolet Suburban 1500 LS 5.3L (0 LMG) 4-spd (4L60-E)

Does everyone second guess themselves while programming? It’s something about not being able to see those 0’s & 1’s that makes me unsure if everything went right. I try my very best to do everything correctly, read all the service info, take all the precautions. But when something goes wrong I usually assume I messed something up. Case in point, called into shop this morning to program a BCM 07 Suburban. Supposedly to correct an intermittent no crank. Everything is fine and dandy with the programming ,until I’m about to walk away and I noticed the radio was still on with the key out and drivers door opened. After a 10 minute wait it would turn off, but not before, even if I commanded the RAP relay off through the BCM. I ask the tech if this was a pre-existing problem, he says “no, I’m positive it wasn’t like that” well shit, what did I do wrong? I must have messed up somewhere. Went back through everything I did, pushed the programming through again, no luck. But I believe this tech is being honest and I feel like I have to come up with an answer before I can walk away. I tried the other 3 doors, radio still stays on. I did notice how ever the other 3 trigger the courtesy lights, but the driver’s does not. Then I checked for the chime while the key was in and driver’s door open, no chime. Not sure why the radio stays on, but I want to know what’s happening with the driver’s door switch. Look up the data PID’s in the Driver’s door module, and there is a “driver’s door open” PID that DOES change state as I open and close the driver’s door. Checked in the BCM and found no data pid for the front door position. Feeling frustrated I decided to read up on the description/operation before chasing my tail anymore. Turns out the other 3 doors trigger the RAP relay to turn off, and that shuts everything off (like power windows) EXCEPT the radio, it’s not kept on by the RAP relay. The driver’s door is the only door that will shut off the radio via the data network. I also looked at the wiring diagram for the Driver door switch and it has 3 contact points. 3 wires that send ground to the DDM depending on the position of the door. I check these 3 wires for a ground when the door is open, and only 1 gets ground. The others don’t. So I ground the other 2 manually and the radio shuts off immediately. So it’s a bad switch... but why didn’t the data PID change in the DDM? Well after a second look, there is a “driver’s door open” PID AND a “driver’s door ajar” PID which I had missed. That ajar PID needed to change in order for the radio to recognize that the door was actually opened. So do I charge for this diag? Yup! Does the shop want to pay me for it? Who knows. (They did) But how do you handle it when there’s a problem after programming that you are unsure if you caused or not? They agree upfront to pay you if it’s not something you caused? I just always feel I it’s my responsibility to figure it out if there is a problem after the fact, but often waste my time trying to track down a problem I didn’t cause. Finding that confidence to say “I know this isn’t something I caused“ is tough for me to have when programming.

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Anthony Technical Support Specialist
Pennsylvania
Anthony Default
 

Hi Sean: Do a Diagnostic Circuit Check before you start and you finish then you don't have those questions. Guido

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Martin Instructor
British Columbia
Martin Default
 

Exactly Guido. Never ASSUME anything. It makes an AXX out of U and ME! Always do system checks first. Just wait for Global B programming to arrive with the 2020 Corvette and Cadillac CT5. The 'vette has 120 modules with the BCM managing 79. SPS can only program service replacement modules, (no pulling modules from the vehicle assembly line as they will not program in Global B via SPS). When…

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Michael Owner
Alabama
Michael Default
 

"Just wait for Global B programming to arrive with the 2020 Corvette and Cadillac CT5. The 'vette has 120 modules with the BCM managing 79." Here's a publicly-accessible preview of what's already in GM dealer service bays... gm-techlink​.​com/?p=12167

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Martin Instructor
British Columbia
Martin Default
   

Exactly Mike. Here's a re-draw of the DLC for a GM "High Feature" Global "B" vehicle that I did a little while ago, to better visually illustrate what may be present at the DLC. This was drawn from an unknown model, but appears to align with a 2020 Cadillac CT5. The terminology may not be consistent, but the terminal assignment seems to be correct. These are only accessible by authorized scan…

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Anthony Technical Support Specialist
Pennsylvania
Anthony Default
 

You mentioned that "lesser equipped models include LS GMLAN". Is that in addition to or in lieu of CAN 7? TIA, Guido

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Martin Instructor
British Columbia
Martin Default
 

Hi Guido. The drawing I posted is from an unknown high feature vehicle DLC. There is relatively little in the way of DLCs for 2020 models showing Global B terminations. There is absolutely no SI info for 2020 MY Corvettes yet. 2020 trucks still show LS GMLAN. My drawing appears to align with the CT5 document 5190608 connector end view X 84 DLC terminations, while the descriptions vary slightly…

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Anthony Technical Support Specialist
Pennsylvania
Anthony Default
 

Hi Marty: Thanks for the feedback. Don't you just love these four token rides? Weeeeeeeeeeee. Guido

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Sean Technician
Minnesota
Sean Default
 

Thanks for replying Guido. Could you define “diagnostic circuit check” is that something beyond my normal pre & post scan? Or at you referring to the GDS2 bus diagnostic tool?

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Anthony Technical Support Specialist
Pennsylvania
Anthony Default
 

Hi Sean: DCC is the old name. (Old habits die hard.) GM has at least 4 different names for it. While it encompasses more than just a network check, that is a good starting point. It doesn't matter the manufacturer or whatever flavor of the week that they wish to call it. The concept is the same. Who is there? Who's not? Who's bitching and when? If a bitch is pitched after performing a…

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Geoff Diagnostician
Hawaii
Geoff Default
 

Hi Sean. Just a thought after reading all the replies and speaking to your actual request for suggestions. You might consider what the police call a "body cam". Then you can spend barely a minute or two just quickly walking around, opening and closing doors, rolling windows up an down, honking the horn, testing wipers washers, turning radio on and off. You won't even need to remember, or note…

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Martin Instructor
British Columbia
Martin Default
   

Hi Sean. The Diagnostic System Check-Vehicle is the starting point for all diagnostics on GM vehicles. Now first off, I'm a long-time technician who doesn't just "drink the corporate KooI-Aid®, but instead uses all of the information in an organized manner that has served me well over many years as a technician and instructor. GM has had the Strategy Based Diagnostics document for many years…

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Anthony Technical Support Specialist
Pennsylvania
Anthony Default
 

Hi Marty: That doesn't seem too bad for .3. :) Guido

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Martin Instructor
British Columbia
Martin Default
 

LOL Guido! Most of the steps on the DSC-V are fairly easily accomplished, if the vehicle drove into the shop and the tech is on the ball with the preliminaries covered and is capable of thinking on the run. It definitely relies on an organized diagnostic approach and having the hierarchy of the tests in good order, to closely resemble the DSC-V that the less accomplished might need to follow…

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Greg Technician
Washington
Greg Default
   

Common problem Unfortunately showed up when you are there. You do something they can’t so they’ll call. I respect you mobile programmers more everyday. Keep it up!

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Martin Instructor
British Columbia
Martin Default
 

Guido "nailed it" Sean. You were lucky that old truck is a simple one, but unlucky that the problem appeared to possibly be related. I've worked on those where the BCM was locked up, lights were on, no crank and other conditions were present on an '07 Silverado This was after a pair of student technicians had "hot unplugged" the BCM during a network diagnosis and left it hanging down by the…

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Sean Technician
Minnesota
Sean Default
 

Thanks for replying Martin. You’re completely correct, I need to be checking all functions beforehand in these situation, time consuming up front but saves me from situations like this. The challenge I often run into is a blank module has been installed before I get there and all functions for that module won’t operate until after the programming. For instance, a new PCM would not allow the…

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Robert Mobile Technician
Michigan
Robert Default
 

Hi Martin! I have been reading up a bit on the new protocol GM is implementing on what you call their Global B. This is going to be a game changer for sure in our field. IMO most of the training we have in the aftermarket world is becoming redundant. No one training institution is preparing for the future training which lies a head of us. I have asked several trainers about classes on…

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Martin Instructor
British Columbia
Martin Default
 

Hi Bob. I think that the challenge with infotainment systems is the rapidly advancing technologies are hard to keep up with. At GM, we had multiple online courses in the LMS system as prerequisites and a pair of infotainment courses for classroom delivery circa 2015 that were almost outdated by the time we delivered them. Last year I delivered several Info 1 and Info 2 certification courses to…

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Robert Mobile Technician
Michigan
Robert Default
 

Hi Martin! Thanks for the detailed explanation and direction GM will be moving in the near future. You are correct the technology is moving faster than we(technicians) can keep up. I find extremely challenging at times. As you stated it is hard for a institute with trainers to invest into resources to provide training to the select few. Majority always prevails. The issue is in the Indy world…

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Eric Owner/Technician
Wisconsin
Eric Default
 

First, as an actual programmer I hate using the phrase "programming" for this process, this is not programming, this is installing software, programming is a whole other thing. You guys have it easy today, try installing Windows 3.1, Windows 95, or Windows 98 on a computer of that era. Then you had the pleasure of installing drivers and software for all the other hardware that was attached to…

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Michael Owner
Alabama
Michael Default
 

"First, as an actual programmer I hate using the phrase "programming" for this process, this is not programming, this is installing software..." Hello, World! ; ) I think it's closer to BIOS flashing, don't you?

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Anthony Technical Support Specialist
Pennsylvania
Anthony Default
 

Hi Mike: Since when did those word thingies ever matter? Guido

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Eric Owner/Technician
Wisconsin
Eric Default
 

Maybe, only since the result may be a bricked motherboard/module. I relate it to the unknowing of what is happening, if it is going well or not, and stuck doing nothing but watching the progress bar, sometimes for hours. Then having it fail or having a corrupt or buggy installation. Still, it is a poor, unreliable method and should be improved. I expect better from the vehicle manufactures…

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Brian Instructor
Ohio
Brian Default
 

Yes I have questioned myself on some "programming / software installation" As others have stated checking for all dtc's and or software / cal id's before starting is super important! In my experience with GM Ford Honda rarely does the manufacture have the errors, if something is wrong usually it was me or one of my guys missing something. Once I had a mid 2000's Trailblazer that I was called…

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