A Chrysler Driveability Case Study. Expect the unexpected

Keith Diagnostician Collinsville, Oklahoma Posted   Latest   Edited  
Case Study
Driveability
2005 Chrysler Sebring GTC 2.7L (R EER) 4-spd (41TE)
P0131 - O2 Sensor Circuit Low Voltage Bank 1 Sensor 1
P0141 - O2 Sensor Heater Circuit Bank 1 Sensor 2
P0155 - O2 Sensor Heater Circuit Bank 2 Sensor 1
P0161 - O2 Sensor Heater Circuit Bank 2 Sensor 2

Brin shares an interesting driveability case study on a Chrysler Sebring. The symptoms are, an illuminated check engine light and a very rough running condition. Follow along to see how and why this Chrysler reacts differently than some may have experienced with similar faults on different car lines. 

A Chrysler Driveability Case Study. Expect the unexpected

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Joel Diagnostician
Soquel, California
Joel
 

thank you guys for this nice lessons

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Dmitriy Analyst
Toronto, Ontario
Dmitriy
   

Keith, thank you for posting the link. I would like to discuss a finer point here as well. At 4:45 Brin says that it is not obvious how the car computer figures out the O2 sensor temperature as no temperature sensor is provided. Except that, technically (and the keyword is "technically"), the heater circuit IS a temperature sensor. At 18:55, the resistance of the heater element at room

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Brin Diagnostician
Melbourne, Florida
Brin
 

Dmitriy, Thank you for your thoughts. I assumed that the PCM infers O2 sensor temperature based off of O2 sensor activity on this one but I'm not sure. I hope that others will share their thoughts as well.

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Geoff Diagnostician
Lahaina, Hawaii
Geoff
   

Hi Brin. Sharing thoughts.... :-) My thought is that if the engineers knew what they were doing they would work for GM. hahahaha ;-) I posted a question at Perkins below too.

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Glen Owner/Technician
Arthur, Illinois
Glen
   

I thought that the 02 sensor active command had to be done KOEO. I am also thinking according to ohms law I seem to be missing something, best guess the 02 sensor is not at room temp as the PPT states for the posted ohms specs.

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Dmitriy Analyst
Toronto, Ontario
Dmitriy
 

Glen, thanks for the correction -- at 23:17, the car is not running, instead the heater is activated manually. Anyway, the O2 sensor will be toasty and resistance of the heater element higher.

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Geoff Diagnostician
Lahaina, Hawaii
Geoff
 

We see cars that age daily here, and many of them do not have up to date software. The case study didn't mention checking and updating. Even without any TSB it's my understanding that Chrysler's rule is always attempt an update before replacing a PCM. I was told that by a career Chrysler guy who's son works there now too. I also saved some files the one and only time I had TechAuthority access…

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Brin Diagnostician
Melbourne, Florida
Brin
 

That's a great point Geoff! Thank you for reminding me. I can't believe that I forgot to mention this. The PCM was checked and it was at the latest calibration. This is why I encourage folks to comment. Thanks again!

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Geoff Diagnostician
Lahaina, Hawaii
Geoff
 

and what's funny is, the very next video I watched after that one, was a new DeFazio one, in which, he was showing how to check a Chrysler for update level. Eeeeery coincidence. LOL

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Anthony Technical Support Specialist
Kirkwood, Pennsylvania
Anthony
 

Hi Geoff: It may be helpful to think about why OEMs take that position. In their world, cars are generally under warranty (3 years old or less). In many …es, there may not be service information available for that vehicle, initially. But most importantly, from the dealer's point of view, if they perform a procedure as directed by the OEM and it goes egg-shaped, they'll be paid warranty by the

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Caleb Technician
Mishawaka, Indiana
Caleb
 

Nice one. I would have had a hard time not getting stuck on the common ground for the heater. I realize the current tells all but I think I still would have camped on the ground for no good reason lol.

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Brin Diagnostician
Melbourne, Florida
Brin
   

Glen Stutzman was kind enough to send some Chrysler Next Generation Training documents to me. We also spoke about the documents as I was driving in unfamiliar territory about 1420 miles from home. My hands were at the 10 and 2 position and I was watching the road as he read the document to me. After talking with him and once I reached my final destination for the night, I was able to revisit the

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Dmitriy Analyst
Toronto, Ontario
Dmitriy
 

Many thanks to Glen for following up on this. Expect the unexpected, right? I'm surprised to hear the pull-up resistor is as high as 10K -- this would make a very small voltage drop across the heater (several mV). Hard to measure, lots of noise to filter out... However, the value can be measured any time during the OFF period of the duty cycle, so no surprise if it is not visible on the scope

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Christopher Technician
San Antonio, Texas
Christopher
 

I wonder why the fault threshold temp for the B2S2 sensor is 300degF less than the others...

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