Ford Mode$06 Question - Missing Min Max Values

Scott Owner/Technician Claremont, California Posted   Latest   Edited  
Resolved
Driveability
Emissions
2012 Ford F-150 XL 3.5L (T) 6-spd (6R80) — 1FTFW1ET8CFA72700
P054C — Cold Start "B" Camshaft Position Timing Over-Advanced Bank 2
P0012-00
P0014 — "B" Camshaft Position - Timing Over-Advanced or System Performance Bank 1
P0022 — "A" Camshaft Position - Timing Over-Retarded Bank 2
Mode$06

Hello everyone, I have a question about missing Mode$06 min/max thresholds. We currently have the above listed vehicle in for service and while I was browsing through the Mode$06 data, (specifically looking at the VVT data) I noticed that the maximum threshold values were missing.

Yesterday we had a 2013 F150 with a 5.0L in with VVT and the mode$06 maximum thresholds appear as expected.

The vehicle in question is equipped with CSER (Cold Start Emissions Reduction) and previously had the engine replaced because of camshaft error codes such as: P054C, P0012, P0014, P0022 and my goal here is to monitor camshaft timing performance. The new engine currently has 5,000 mi and we're making sure that everything is operating properly.

Can anyone share any insight on the missing maximum values on this vehicle? 

Thanks!

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Jamey Owner/Technician
Ventura, California
Jamey Default
 

Has the monitor ran? Usually when I see a bunch of zero, its because the monitor has not completed. If it is ready, I would make sure it is a factory program and not “Tuned”.

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Scott Owner/Technician
Claremont, California
Scott Default
 

Thanks Jamey, I'm digging further and I'll report back.

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Glen Owner/Technician
Arthur, Illinois
Glen Default
 

I have Mode 6 data an a '13, is there a monitor status pid? I would look at the pids mentioned in TSB 17-0026 for timing chain info. I see that recall 19S07 is not open do you know if this has been done?

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Scott Owner/Technician
Claremont, California
Scott Default
 

Hi Glen, Thanks for the input. I'll dig further and report back.

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Caleb Technician
Mishawaka, Indiana
Caleb Default
 

I'm not near as well versed in Generic OBD as a lot of people. However I would completely agree with Jamey. Had the monitor even ran and completed yet? Also is the PCM to the latest calibration? Is it a new Ford engine? Is it possible that it needs a Misfire Neutral Correction Profile ran with the new engine before it will produce VVT monitor results? ( forgive my wording for the crank learn, I…

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Scott Owner/Technician
Claremont, California
Scott Default
 

Hi Caleb, Thanks for the input, latest calibration is in the vehicle. This was a new/reman from Ford. Good call on the profile correction as the vehicle did have a few pending misfire DTC's and we didn't have record that the profile correction was relearned on the new engine. That has now been done and we'll be road testing the vehicle extensively to see what happens. Thanks again!

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Randy Analyst
Denver, Colorado
Randy Default
 

They aren't "missing", their values are zero. J1979 covers this and In the 2017 version, page 38 explains the correct behavior for the 5 possible conditions. The others have explained what seems to be what you are asking, that MID/TID has not ran and completed yet and is why it = 0. Post back if you are asking a different question than we are answering.

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Scott Owner/Technician
Claremont, California
Scott Default
 

Hi Randy, I was hoping that you were going to chime in. Looks like my understanding may be incorrect. I was assuming that the Min and Max values the expected allowable range and the value is the current "reported value".

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Marlin Technician
Estacada, Oregon
Marlin Default
 

Are the "min" and "max" values programmed and fixed, or are they determined by the PCM through in-use monitoring?

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Jamey Owner/Technician
Ventura, California
Jamey Default
 

Min/Max is fixed. The result or actual is determined by the monitor running.

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Marlin Technician
Estacada, Oregon
Marlin Default
 

That has been my understanding, but I want to verify. BTW, you indicated otherwise in your own reply above. Maybe you should read that. ;)

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Scott Owner/Technician
Claremont, California
Scott Default
 

This is what I'm asking, sorry if I failed to communicate that...

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Randy Analyst
Denver, Colorado
Randy Default
 

I don't pay much attention to that and I don't think the standard says you can't adjust it but I will say I have witnessed max values change on a single vehicle. These were the early mode $06 systems.

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Marlin Technician
Estacada, Oregon
Marlin Default
 

Thank you. As we can see from Scott's update below, the fields are populating as the related monitor completes. What can you say about the reason behind this? Is it just to help reduce misuse of non-results (i.e., values which are not accurate because the monitor has not run)?

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Randy Analyst
Denver, Colorado
Randy Default
 

20 years ago mode $06 wasn’t reallly standardized so each manufacture did their own thing. A bunch of us technicians complained, CARB listened, and a standard was born. Any time you see the standardized descriptors as well as MID and CID instead of TID and CID, it’s the new mode $06. If it’s the new $06, it works as described in this thread. Resetting min max to 0 on DTC clear: The why part for…

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Anthony Technical Support Specialist
Kirkwood, Pennsylvania
Anthony Default
   

Hi Randy: In some …es, CARB and EPA have contributed to the conflating of "monitor" vs. "readiness flag". You and Bob from VW point that out in a response to me about a JLR vehicle. There's a whole lot of help going around contributing to the confusion. Thanks for the clarification. I can't wait for the next headache session. 😕 Guido

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Samuel Technician
Somers Point, New Jersey
Samuel Default
 

This information is gold...thank you!!!

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Anthony Technical Support Specialist
Kirkwood, Pennsylvania
Anthony Default
 

Hi Scott: What's the GVW? Even though it's a 150, that doesn't appear to mean much anymore. If it's too heavy, the "0"s may just be place holders for that vehicle instead of using N/A. Just a thought. Guido

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Scott Owner/Technician
Claremont, California
Scott Default
 

Hi Guido, 7200# Thanks

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Scott Owner/Technician
Claremont, California
Scott Update
 

Fyi, I just pulled a Mode$06 report from 2015 Fusion:

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Randy Analyst
Denver, Colorado
Randy Default
 

Looks fine. Is there a question?

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Scott Owner/Technician
Claremont, California
Scott Default
 

Just showing that there are MAX values shown as expected. Curious as to why the max values on the subject vehicle are shown as zero.

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Scott Owner/Technician
Claremont, California
Scott Resolution
   

Update - Ran most of the monitors and after pulling the Mode$06 data I'm now seeing what I expected to see. I had no idea that the MIN/MAX values would be zero until certain monitors completed. You'll notice that the only monitor not complete is EVAP where those numbers remain at zero. Thanks for everyone's input, I appreciate it.

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Hollis Technician
Boulder, Colorado
Hollis Default
 

That's what I was wondering, which monitors had to run / clear / conditions met before the VVT values would appear. Time, Temp, Strategies, Soak-Timers, ect. This / your vehicle had 5,000 miles on the odometer since repairs and one would assume the monitors would have run by then. Your EVAP monitor is more than likely one that has the self-test function when the vehicle goes to sleep after…

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Scott Owner/Technician
Claremont, California
Scott Default
 

Hi Hollis, I believe that the reason the VVT monitors hadn’t run in the 5k since engine installation was because the CKP relearn wasn’t performed for the new engine. Now with pending misfire DTC’s, the monitor was suspended. As for the EVAP monitor, you can see that the large leak portion ran during my drive and the other tests I expect will run soon. Thanks for the input.

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Caleb Technician
Mishawaka, Indiana
Caleb Default
 

Cool glad too see you got it.

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