2016 F150 P0335

Rudy Technician Utah Posted   Latest   Edited  
Resolved
Driveability
2016 Ford F-150 Limited 3.5L (G) 6-spd (6R80)
P0335 — Crankshaft Position Sensor "A" Circuit
Crank / No Start

If anyone is familiar with this vehicle(or similar) Im trying to find out what the reading(V) should be on the CKP signal wire with the connector unplugged, KOEO. (not cranking)

I am not looking for diagnostic advice or help at this point. That may come later.

I am looking for a specific reading. I cannot find that info. There is an IDfix thread that says the reading should be source voltage,however I have not been able to confirm that in anyway. 

I currently have 5v on that wire,KOEO (not cranking)

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Todd Mobile Technician
Alberta
Todd
   

If memory serves, there should be 5 volts on the signal wire. It is a pull down signal.

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Rudy Technician
Utah
Rudy
 

Todd- Appreciate the input. This is the photo in the IDfix article and where I am confused. If what you say is correct, then they are definitely leading techs down the wrong path:

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Robert Owner
Pennsylvania
Robert
 

How can Vsig be 12 volts if Vref is 5 volts??? I am with you - the diagram is bogus.

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Dmitriy Analyst
Ontario
Dmitriy
 

Not exactly: diag​.​net/file/f1qeqhp4v… ​

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Mike Instructor
California
Mike
 

Hi Dmitriy, What publication is that?

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Dmitriy Analyst
Ontario
Dmitriy
 

sensing​.​honeywell​.​com/honeywell-sens…​.​pdf

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Mike Instructor
California
Mike
 

Thank you very much! Mike

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Steven Mechanic
Washington
Steven
 

There are some VW sensors that have a 5V power supply, ground, and the signal is a 12V square wave. The ECM sends 12V on the signal wire and the sensor toggles it. Not sure about this Ford though.

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Kevin Mechanic
California
Kevin
 

Perhaps it is a bias voltage used for fault detection? 12v unplugged. Just bouncing ideas around.

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Glenn Owner/Technician
Texas
Glenn
 

Hi Rudy, I can recall the CKP sensors were 2 wire on these. Have you confirmed it is a 2 wire or a 3 wire?

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Rudy Technician
Utah
Rudy
 

Glenn- its 3 wire.

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Glenn Owner/Technician
Texas
Glenn
 

Thanks.

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Jonathan Educator
California
Jonathan
 

Mr. Mestaz (Rudy); Good evening Sir, i hope all is well. Searching within Diag​.​net I was able to find a waveform posted by Ray which could be of assistance. diag​.​net/msg/m1lkqm39s8… In this waveform capture you see the Camshaft Sensors are “Full Voltage Sensors'. I hope this helps,

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Rudy Technician
Utah
Rudy
 

Jonathan- Appreciate the input man. Im actually chasing down a crank sensor fault and if Im reading your link correctly, it is a 0-5v wave.

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Glenn Owner/Technician
Texas
Glenn
   

Hi Rudy, I suggest you isolate the wires and then load test them to determine if it is wiring (which I suspect) or the PCM has an issue. An Ohm test is not reliable. A halogen bulb and some leads with a 12V power source are a method I use most of the time. Are there any PATS related issues? Often a full code scan may not give all the information or codes. Okay, I offered troubleshooting…

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Glenn Owner/Technician
Texas
Glenn
 

Hi Rudy, Like any Ford crank sensor, you should see a consistent 5V square wave pattern. The trick is to watch for deviations and shifting. I've run across several engines where the balancer bolt was not torqued properly. The result was the trigger wheel/ reluctor had the keyway are hammered and it was shifting/ ratcheting with crankshaft acceleration and deceleration. On two of them I found…

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Caleb Diagnostician
Indiana
Caleb
 

I dont know for certain what the bias is on that particular YMM. However if I saw 5v I would be happy with it. Maybe that would get me in trouble.

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Glenn Owner/Technician
Texas
Glenn
 

Hi Rudy, I talked to a local Ford tech I know and he said the CKP signal wire will show very low voltage when disconnected from the CKP with the key on, there is no set published value that he knows of. It is basically a "monitor voltage" (mV's) the PCM sends to conform wire integrity and the sensor is present. Other than that it supplies the digital signal to the PCM when the engine is…

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Rudy Technician
Utah
Rudy
 

Glenn- appreciate it 1FTEW1EG7GKE66961

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Mike Instructor
California
Mike
   

Just sent you an email as well. It could very well be 12 volts KOEO. I've also seen 5 volts on that circuit. It depends upon the calibration. I've seen this many times on Fords. Are you getting any voltage reading at all? BTW, the Ford PPT (JD) doesn't for your code mention any test for this particular circuit voltage, which is pretty standard for them on most of their vehicles. All they have…

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Rudy Technician
Utah
Rudy Update
   

Ok so back story on whats going on here: (I apologize for not posting this earlier ,Id hope to figure it out before now) Vehicle was towed in , died while driving, crank /no start, P0335 stored(no other codes) Quick scan data pull showed no rpm reading. I lifted the truck to inspect it and found the ckp harness runs under the turbo and melted(heat shield was missing) I cut off about 9 inches…

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Glenn Owner/Technician
Texas
Glenn
 

Hi Rudy, Clear the memory and retest, Ford is bad about retaining memory and the ECM ‘thinks’ it has a problem when it actually does not. A 5V sensor circuit does not carry enough Amperage to burn a wire, that is the main reason why they use 5V low Amp in many computers. Generally the wire burn damage is from another outside source. If it still shows 5V on 2 of the wires it is likely a damaged…

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Rudy Technician
Utah
Rudy
   

Glenn- Yeah I tried a kam reset. Same deal. The wires weren't burned from current, they sit ½ away from the hot side of the turbo. Even the heat sheathing melted. There was supposed to be a metal heat shield covering the whole set-up, but some time in this trucks life it was removed and not replaced.

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Mike Instructor
California
Mike
 

Rudy, that harness that melted--is there a wire in that bundle that is “carrying” 12 volts?

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Rudy Technician
Utah
Rudy
 

Mike- Well that's the dilemma. The harness that melted only contains the 3 wires for the ckp sensor( they fused together) and I don't know if the signal wire goes to 12v when open or not.

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Glenn Owner/Technician
Texas
Glenn
 

Hi Rudy, A couple of minutes ago, I discussed the problem with my buddy at Ford, he is checking into it, but said the PCM is highly unlikely. He suggested to confirm the exact (color and number) wires to the exact pin number of the repair connector. Connector views on the sensors and harness side have been know to be printed backwards in some service date. Match the existing harness wire colors…

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Mike Instructor
California
Mike
 

I couldn't agree more Glenn--even if I have to buy directly from the dealer (if I can't get the part form a Motorcraft warehouse) that's where I buy it.

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Rudy Technician
Utah
Rudy
 

Glenn- I was certain my repair is correct, however I went ahead and cut it off and I am getting the same readings from the bare wires. This is why I suspect the wires may be shorted together somewhere. Still,If I knew what my signal wire should read unplugged,it would help give me direction. The sensor in the NAPA box looked identical to the one I pulled from the truck, right down to the…

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Glenn Owner/Technician
Texas
Glenn
 

Hi Rudy, Give me a call …

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Glenn Owner/Technician
Texas
Glenn
 

I sent the copies I have to your email. Hope it helps you

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Glenn Owner/Technician
Texas
Glenn
 

Hi Rudy, For now, take the cam sensor itself out of the equation. Given the circumstances of the harness being burnt, it is really favoring the ECM has suffered internal damage. Were their other wires in the burnt area of the damaged harness or was it strictly the CKP breakout harness?

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Geoff Diagnostician
Hawaii
Geoff
 

I'm sure you are avoiding cutting the CKP wire at the PCM to eliminate/verify the harness-short possibility, so try this. With a meter on the VREF, touch that ckt with a grounded test lamp. Note the reading. (I would suspect it to drop from 5V to around 4 or so). Now run that same test on CKP. If that drops to exactly the same reading as VREF, they are shorted together. If that drops to 0V, it…

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Thanks
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Rudy Technician
Utah
Rudy
 

Oooooohhhh Big Geoff swoops in with the diag tips!! Will do loco, sounds like a good way to go. Youre right,Im putting off cutting the wire until the last resort. I like your thinking!

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Glenn Owner/Technician
Texas
Glenn
 

Hi Rudy, Geoff has some good tips. He is accustom to working on some very unusual problems where he is at.

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Geoff Diagnostician
Hawaii
Geoff
 

Might need one or two different lower amp test lights, in case VREF drops to zero also. It shouldn't though.

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Rudy Technician
Utah
Rudy Update
 

Id like some clarification. Is it a valid test to run a magnet or piece of metal in front of these hall effect ckp sensors and expect to see a response on my scope? Obviously I wouldn't see a square wave, but maybe just a bump(or reduction) in voltage as the sensor reacts to the metallic piece? Or is not a valid way to check the sensor?

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Glenn Owner/Technician
Texas
Glenn
 

Hi Rudy, It is not a valid measured method, but it is a quick test to run a pocket screwdriver or similar metal tool past the sensor tip. Anything that breaks the magnet field produces a signal from the sensor if all wires are connected and correct. It should show up on a scope with the key on and engine off and the sensor back probed. Here is a You Tube video that may help: How to Bench…

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Rudy Technician
Utah
Rudy Resolution
 

4th sensor was the charm! I started to wonder why I wasnt getting any response when I passed a piece of metal in front of the previous sensors.(as seen on my scope) I assumed it was because there was an issue with my signal wire. Using Geoffs method(thanks vato, I owe you a taco!) I ruled out a short in the harness. I started to think….. maybe….just maybe I have a run of bad sensors. So we…

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Thanks
Geoff Diagnostician
Hawaii
Geoff
   

Good stuff hermano! First I've heard of a bias voltage on Ford, so good to know this too.

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