Vehicle has theft, but dealer says it doesn't?

Timothy Owner/Technician Wisconsin Posted   Latest  
Resolved
Programming
2008 Dodge Dakota SLT 3.7L (K) 4-spd (42RLE) — 1D7HW32K58S545649
Start/Stall

Owner went into the store, came out, and the vehicle became a start/stall. Tried it several times, then vehicle would not crank. P0633 set. Basically means that it has a theft issue, the PIN is not stored in the PCM. But, there is no chip in the key? Does have RKE, and it works fine. WCM shows that the engine is disabled because of theft? Huh? Dealer states that according to VIN, it never came with theft/SKIM.

Owner has the truck since new, and no one has changed anything. No remote start installed. This thing is clean and virgin. Original PCM installed. All VINS match in he vehicle, from PCM, ABS, WCM, etc…

Salvage PCM installed (NGC PCM), and vehicle is back to start/stall. WCM shows no ‘valid’ key. Double check key with locksmith, he states no ‘chip’ in the key, (has integral remote), just in case my stuff, Chinese key reader is wrong.

So, shop wants to know how to get this thing running: I tell 'em, new WCM, and reman PCM. New WCM is out about 7 mos.! They want to know if a salvage WCM and PCM from same vehicle will work…

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Bob Technician
Massachusetts
Bob
 

This could be an option for you uhs-hardware​.​com/products/the-d…

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Raymond Mobile Technician
Michigan
Raymond
 

hi tim, I had a 2007 pt cruiser and a used wcm did not work and waisted a key had to get new wcm and another key from dealer and car started fine, my thoughts r that the vin number is probably in other modules also, unless u do eeprom work and virganize it may still have issues, HTH

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Alan Owner/Technician
Mississippi
Alan
 

Had a 06 or 07 Jeep Grand Cherokee here a while back. With the identical same issue you have I'm not sure about service codes because I didn't actually work on it. Went through the same issue with the key dealership said it did not have anti theft on it. But the vehicle had a anti-theft light that would turn off when the doors were unlocked with the remote transmitter according to the customer…

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Timothy Owner/Technician
Wisconsin
Timothy
 

No antitheft LED is on this vehicle, either during bulb check, nor at any other time.

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Jeffrey Mobile Technician
Illinois
Jeffrey
 

Hey Tim. By chance did the owner walk into a ACE and have a duplicate key made? I’m sure there are lots of people here that have those kind of stories! I do have ways of reading the EEPROM! I have yet to actually do it on WINs and WCMs. Theres also a way with a cardaq to disable theft. I have a contact if I can get him to answer his phone or return calls and emails, that specializes in Chrysler…

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Timothy Owner/Technician
Wisconsin
Timothy
 

There is only one key. The owner has done absolutely nothing to this.

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Marti Owner/Technician
Michigan
Marti
   

Inside the Remote Head Key, is there a Copper wound coil on the PCB? Also, when the ignition is turned to the On position, is there a Red DOT in the cluster that lights up? (stays on, goes out or flashes)

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Timothy Owner/Technician
Wisconsin
Timothy
 

There is never any LED lit for this truck ever. Fully aware of what an antitheft LED looks like.

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Jeffrey Mobile Technician
Illinois
Jeffrey
 

By chance do you have a witech to see which modules have theft enabled?

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Timothy Owner/Technician
Wisconsin
Timothy
 

Witech shows theft is NOT enabled.

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John Mobile Technician
Illinois
John
 

Tim, I have been involved with a few of these “non SKIM” WCMs. The WCM handles the RKE and transmits ignition switch position to the gateway for the bus and other modules. The PIN and secret key code are there for the RKE function. The “Valid Key In Ignition” pid should display NO. See attached WCM screen save. I suspect that the original issue was a failed PCM. Your WCM is probably ok. If…

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Timothy Owner/Technician
Wisconsin
Timothy
 

Thanks John. Kind of what I was thinking. This is a rare bird, having RKE without Skim. Of course, the shop wants a definitive answer. Just trying to think of how the theft issue got enabled/started, when it's never had theft…I mean, weird crap happens, I realize, but I've not seen an issue where theft just suddenly got awakened when nothing has been done.

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Philip Educator
California
Philip
 

Tim, I've had some success with the SKIM delete function in the Drewtech tool box, if you have a Drew tool or one of the rebadges. I've actually had more than one PCM that decided it had SKIM when it didn't and I'm not even talking about a replacement part. Rather, a long battery disconnect during an engine replacement and when things were fired back up, the thing magically decided it had SKIM…

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Geoff Diagnostician
Hawaii
Geoff
   

I've heard of this before too Phil. Even saw it on a much older Dodge (K-Car). Senior tech at the time had seen it before and showed me about it. It's just one more way a PCM can fail...enabling functions hidden in the programming that were "off" until the failure occurs.

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Timothy Owner/Technician
Wisconsin
Timothy
 

I wish this had suffered from something such as a long disconnect or other, but nothing of the sort has occurred here, as I have seen that issue on many vehicles where the battery died over a long period of inactivity… As for the Drewtech I don't have one. I use the VCM for Fords, the pod for Witech, and the MDI for the GMs. Not too sure the MDI could be used in this case, but something to at…

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Allan Owner
Virginia
Allan
 

Do this first. Restore vehicle configuration. When done it should run and may have the same P0633 it has now. BUT it will restore it to factory. IF that doesn’t work with the original PCM try with replacement. It will get it running

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Timothy Owner/Technician
Wisconsin
Timothy
 

The salvage PCM does not have the P0633 anymore, but the issue remains. Vehicle restore did nothing. This is a pretty basic 2WD vehicle, without a ton of bells and whistles…not too much to restore or configure. Manual AC, low level radio, etc…

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Alan Owner/Technician
Mississippi
Alan
 

Has me wondering if the door was locked or unlocked when He entered it leaving the store ? And also if he use the key or the transmitter to unlock the door if it was locked. I find this to be a very very interesting security issues.

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Timothy Owner/Technician
Wisconsin
Timothy
 

Owner states that he always uses the remote for locking/unlocking. I've tried it both ways, with key and not. No difference. And, the remote functions just fine.

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Marti Owner/Technician
Michigan
Marti
 

Get a used PCM, (Exact Year/Make/Model AND Engine -NO Security) and Rewrite the VIN and sync the WCM/Secret Key with new PCM and see what happens?

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Timothy Owner/Technician
Wisconsin
Timothy
 

Unfortunately, most salvage yards cannot tell you whether a salvage PCM has theft enabled, which has always been an issue with used stuff. It doesn't matter if the vehicle has theft/SKIM on-board, you just write the VIN (on older NGC stuff) and away you go…in this case, the salvage PCM came from a Jeep, but we had no way of knowing whether the PCM had SKIM until we installed it…

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Kerry Mobile Technician
Ohio
Kerry
 

Generally they don't know whether their PCMS are skim enabled or not but you can cut through a lot of wasted time by asking if the column is still for sale and for them to ID the key. This worked really well prior to maybe about 2005 when the triangle shaped rke key premiered like you have. Black meant black and gray wasn't a guarantee that it had skim because sometimes both a dealer or a…

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Marti Owner/Technician
Michigan
Marti
 

Wondering, would U know if the 2 available WCM look identical?…both having the antenna ring? Also wondering, IF they both have the antenna ring, does the Non-SKIM emit an RF signal during Key-on?

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Kerry Mobile Technician
Ohio
Kerry
 

Marti, Yes the modules will look basically identical. From the shop manual: "Several unique SKREEM modules are used: one for vehicles equipped with RKE only, one for vehicles equipped with RKE and SKIS, and another version has an additional coaxial connector receptacle that allows it to receive inputs from the optional remote start antenna module ". For what its worth, the manual also describes…

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Marti Owner/Technician
Michigan
Marti
 

Good info, Thnx Much for addressing my question!….the next Non-immo skreem i encounter, i will be checking for RF output from antenna. Should anyone have/want to post OE PNs for the Non-IMMO SKREEM modules(any/all Y/M/M vehicles), i would be happy to document it in my notes. That said, Tim, with U knowing that this is a Non-immo Skreem, im curious to know its PN as well…..Thnx

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Kerry Mobile Technician
Ohio
Kerry
 

According to the parts manual…. …AG is RKE only, …AE is RKE +Skim, and …AF is the remote start option…. I think these were the original levels so the suffixes could be different. …..and I don't know why I didn't think of this but all of this probably could have been avoided just by looking at the sales codes for the vehicle. SKIM is GXX,and RKE has transitioned from GXM to…

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Alan Owner/Technician
Mississippi
Alan
 

Thanks,

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Jeffrey Mobile Technician
Illinois
Jeffrey
 

Tim, I did a bit of research and I believe the P0633 code is what you will have when you delete the anti-theft from the PCM using something like the drew tech! I believe that this is not a anti-theft issue. I think that PCM has been replaced once before! A good idea might be to check injector pulse while cranking!

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Timothy Owner/Technician
Wisconsin
Timothy
 

The pulse goes away after two seconds. The PCM has never been replaced. The owner of the truck has had it for years. The ‘new’ salvage PCM does not have any codes, the P0633 disappeared when it was installed. The original PCM would not apply starter signal, so no way to check for pulse in that scenario. This one will crank. We simply have a start/stall, with no codes.

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Kerry Mobile Technician
Ohio
Kerry
 

Hi Tim. We've seen what John Thornton described twice now on a PT and a liberty in the 2006 and 2007 range. Chrysler had two different skin modules. One was basically just RKE and the other was full boar RKE and immobilizer. We tried what Phil proposed but because they were CAN vehicles in both cases, sadly the toolbox does not work. Since the rke is still working I would just get a reman PCM…

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Timothy Owner/Technician
Wisconsin
Timothy
 

This is also a CAN vehicle, so the DrewTech approach will not work in this case either. Don't feel like buying new tooling for this, as I don't have a ton of calls like this, so the ROI would never be positive. I agree that the best approach would be to get a reman…

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Alan Owner/Technician
Mississippi
Alan
 

I haven't used him in a while to the person on eBay his sellers name is( modulemadness ) He may have a used module with the security removed we have bought from him in the past with success, He claims that he can remove the security out of any PCM you may send him a pcm if he does not have it on the shelf and he will do it for you . You will have to look him up on eBay.

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Timothy Owner/Technician
Wisconsin
Timothy
 

My experience with online rebuilders has been very negative (more than half have been junk), so I don't use them anymore. I prefer being able to go back to the supplier in person and get another…

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Troy Owner/Technician
Washington
Troy
 

dont know what module failed but I am working on a 1998 van and just out of no where it decided it has antitheft and thats the body module dying so I suppose this is your issue as well for what ever reason the module is loseing its mind and has decided it has antitheft

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Tanner Instructor
South Carolina
Tanner
 

Hey Tim! This sounds like a tough one! I have read through all your responses and it appears the P0633 no longer sets in the newly installed PCM. I also saw that you mentioned Witech shows theft NOT enabled. what I would ask you do with this vehicle is confirm what you are loosing when the truck shuts down. Are you loosing fuel pressure, ignition, or injector pulse. The reason I want to know…

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Timothy Owner/Technician
Wisconsin
Timothy
 

Pulse is commanded off, and the scope verifies that it is indeed killing the pulse. Vehicle runs fine for those two seconds.

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Tanner Instructor
South Carolina
Tanner
 

Alright, so my next question is, is pulse turning off because it’s being commanded or is it stopping because the vehicle is stalling? The reason I ask is that the asd relay controls power to the fuel injectors and coils, while the fuel pump is on another circuit. what I like to do to confirm it is actually loosing injector pulse is to try disabling the fuel pump and running it on an alternative…

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Timothy Owner/Technician
Wisconsin
Timothy
 

It will set a code if the vehicle has theft, but this one does not, so it doesn't set a code. Also, as I said, pulse is commanded to zero, which matches the scope. Vehicle RPM is there right to the end, as is power to the coils and injectors, so that eliminates any ASD issues. I'm sure that if I kept cranking start/stall would happen, and then crank would be disabled, which is what happened…

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Allan Owner
Virginia
Allan
 

Have you ACTUALLY done RESTORE VEHICLE CONFIGURATION with the new pcm installed? If not try it.

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Timothy Owner/Technician
Wisconsin
Timothy
 

As I stated earlier in the thread, restore did nothing to resolve the issue.

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John Mobile Technician
Illinois
John
 

Tanner, In the few that I have done, the original complaint is a no crank. If the crank relay ground side control is grounded, the engine will crank; but there is no spark or fuel. If a used PCM is installed (SKIM enabled), the engine will now crank, start and stall. Now, there is a theft issue on a vehicle that doesn't support theft. I am not sure if this is exactly what Tim has, but this has…

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Timothy Owner/Technician
Wisconsin
Timothy
 

This is exactly what has occurred here. Original complaint was a no crank, Starter relay not activated by the PCM. Now that the salvage PCM has been installed, we're left with a start/stall issue.

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Tanner Instructor
South Carolina
Tanner
 

I agree with the thoughts of John as well. But my assumption is if the Pcm did not receive what it needed to satisfy the immobilizer portion then it would set a code in the pcm anytime it starts and stalls. With that said if you were to reprogram the pcm with a skim removal tool this would confirm if that is your problem.

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Timothy Owner/Technician
Wisconsin
Timothy
 

I don't see the need for tooling that is for this one vehicle, that I've not ever needed, and likely will not need for years, if ever. I did borrow a tool that allegedly does that very thing, and it made no difference at all…most of these tools are hit-or-miss as near as I can see. I'm not going to gamble a bunch of money when there's no ROI for it.

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Alan Owner/Technician
Mississippi
Alan
 

I'm assuming ( Return-On-Onvestment )

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Timothy Owner/Technician
Wisconsin
Timothy
 

Exactly.

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John Owner
New York
John
 

Tanner, I like JT have ran into this very situation on more than one occasion. It is important to note that these PCM's are not “SKIM Enabled” when new or remanufactured (virginized) properly. The presence of a SKIM Module enables it. Much like Cruise is not enabled until the Cruise button is pushed. Another note here is the important differences between SKIM and VTSS. Think of SKIM as…

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Timothy Owner/Technician
Wisconsin
Timothy
 

As I've said repeatedly, a vehicle restore has done nothing to resolve the issue. This vehicle does not have a TIPM as we're all familiar with, it does have a Front Control Module, which is a simpler form of the TIPM, but is not involved with theft on this. CTD is not in play here. I agree that the issue is that theft was somehow ‘awakened’ in this vehicle. That shall remain a mystery. A reman…

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John Owner
New York
John
 

Timothy, I would love to see some Configuration Parameters screenshots from the modules I suggested. We can swap out TIPM for FCM for my suggestions. That would be key. I know CTD is not involved. I just wanted to clarify for others that seem to always confuse SKIM with VTSS. Again, I also suggested the Restore Vehicle Configuration to benefit others. I did read that you tried and it did not…

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Timothy Owner/Technician
Wisconsin
Timothy
 

Oh, indeed the PCM is obsolete from the dealer: not surprised, as NGC disappeared a long time ago, as has the architecture involved in this system. They'll attempt some AM suppliers. I recommended that they try to get one through their normal parts suppliers, as the online stuff is so hit-or-miss…we shall see, eh? I'll update when the PCM comes in.

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Justin Mobile Technician
Utah
Justin
 

I would scope the crank And cam sensors.

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Michael Mobile Technician
Utah
Michael
 

Tim, There are many vehicles of this era that have a non-transponder RKE. This means that there is a SKIM code but no chip in the key. The remote is programmed with skim code but the PCM needs to be a non-SKIM PCM. There is a utility called APNT that removes SKIM from the engine ECU. If you think it is an immo issue, you can disconnect the SKIM/WCM/WIN and use APNT to remove SKIM from PCM. At…

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Timothy Owner/Technician
Wisconsin
Timothy
 

Since this is a rare occasion, and not one I'm likely to see again anytime soon, spending 500.00 for one vehicle, where I'm going to be paid less than half of that seems rather silly. I'm going to recommend a reman PCM…don't have to worry about SKIM at that point.

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Mike Owner/Technician
Ontario
Mike
 

I can disable the SKIM on your salvage PCM or supply you with another PCM with the SKIM already disabled. Let me know if I can help.

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Michael Technician
Indiana
Michael
 

Hi Tim, Just want to throw out there, in the 90s chrysler products would start/stall when the MAP sensor failed. Not saying this is what you have just a thought. Sometimes these cars take us down a rabbit hole. best regards

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Timothy Owner/Technician
Wisconsin
Timothy Resolution
 

So, this one is done and out the door. John Thornton and others who recommended a replacement reman with the chip ‘erased’ are correct. A reman PCM did the job. Installed a ‘blank’ reman PCM, wrote the VIN and the truck fired up and runs just fine. Many thanks to those who offered suggestions. So, when faced with a non-SKIM vehicle, with SKIM codes, replace the PCM before going any further, with…

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