Chrysler 3.6L Right Intake Camshaft

Jose Diagnostician Indiana Posted   Latest   Edited  
Unsolved
Drivetrain
2016 Chrysler 300 S 3.6L (G ERB Gas) 8-spd (845RE)
P0019 — Crankshaft Position - Camshaft Position Correlation Bank 2 Sensor B
Lack of Power
Goes Into Limp Mode

Wanted to find out if the Camshaft use the circle cutout as reference to where the tone ring should be on the camshaft in reference to the cam lobes. Specifically I'm looking at the intake cam on the right side, I'm suspecting a shifted ring but I can't see the magnet marks on it. I got the timing waveforms and I can see that this right intake cam is shifted about 18 degrees (the blue trace is my signal and the green is the known good [overlaid]). I put the cams on time they line up perfect which means that it is not a stuck phaser or it would have been off and would not line up (in my opinion). I also did not suspect a timing chain stretched because this would have rattle and would also affect the exhaust cam, exhuast cam on the right lines up perfect with a known good along with the left bank. 

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Interesting
Bill Owner
Maryland
Bill
 

Go to this page and about half way down you can click and get a good Hi-res image. MC1420 is the one you want. Hard to tell for sure but it looks about the same as yours. melling​.​com/2-13-2020-new…

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Jose Diagnostician
Indiana
Jose
 

I actually ordered a melling cam from oreilly but wanted to know if those would match up for sure, the picture from oreilly for that cam does not match, it is shifted quite a bit so I had to ask here lol. I need confirmation, what i think about this engine is that it got shifted because the thick sludge build up to the cam sensor was rubbing against it.

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Bill Owner
Maryland
Bill
 

Should be interesting to find out. I wouldn't think that sludge would make it shift but you never know :)

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Erik Diagnostician
Florida
Erik
   

I think it is just the heat that makes it expand enough to shift. I believe I heard that issue on a podcast about reluctor rings. 2.2and2.4 Ecotecs has the same issue I believe.

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Stephen Technician
Tennessee
Stephen
 

Is your 18* off crankshaft or camshaft degrees? 18* is a common one tooth of a crank gear value. The crank is not off, that would make both cams out of time. But one tooth off of the cam sprocket would give 18* crank. I’m not following your logic about the phaser. If the timing marks are on the phaser, the actual cam position could be shifted with no indication. Sludge rubbing the tone ring…

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Jose Diagnostician
Indiana
Jose
 

There are holes at the top of the cams and they are quite parallel from one another, also it has Mark's on the cam as well so they appear to be fine. I will be getting the full picture of the time using a 8 channel scope to verify the timing with another car I have as I believe I may have mixed the left and right banks because I was scoping them with a 4 channel scope. I may have a stretched…

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Caleb Diagnostician
Indiana
Caleb
 

Personally id go in cylinder in both banks with all VVT solenoids disconnected. If the EVO and IVC events match bank 2 bank then there is no way its a base timing issue (someone please correct me if thats not true). Cam/crank correlation is a great test but only tells half the story in my opinion. U can also do an RC test with intake vacuum to check for bank to bank timing fault.

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Jason Technician
Illinois
Jason
 

When you scope the intake cams… they should overlay each exactly …. the same as the exhaust. If they do not …. the reluctor has shifted. As for the holes your asking about. I don’t know what they are there for but Chrysler has a tool to put into those holes to check for if the reluctor has shifted. I have personal used the tool and still had a shifted reluctor. Scoping it and overlaying them is…

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Jose Diagnostician
Indiana
Jose
 

Thank you for the reply Jason; am I right to say that if the chain was stretched in one of the banks, both cams would be shifted the same amount? It is odd that only one cam is shifted in my case and it is not a jumped tooth as I verified this already by looking at the sprocket marks and counted the chain pin joints (12 in between per tech info). I read it with the scanner and it does indeed say…

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Jason Technician
Illinois
Jason
 

Hi Jose, you have done your diagnosis and testing. Now since you have proved out everything and the scope captures do not overlay then the reluctor has shifted. The intakes should overlay each other and the exhausts should overlay each other​.​Your correct in your diagnosis. The reluctor has moved on the cam.

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Jose Diagnostician
Indiana
Jose
 

Jason, I used Bernie's technique to check for timing slack at startup and I may be fighting a bad tensioner but I still can't wrap my head around as to why only one cam is shifted and the other one appears to be in time. Please share your feedback if you can. My overlays are here as time progresses during start up. I also see issues with the exhaust but it stabilizes and matches previous known…

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Jose Diagnostician
Indiana
Jose
   

Start up, known good attached from a 2018 Chrysler S. I see a bit of disturbance but stabilizes in great sync.

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Dan Technician
Illinois
Dan
 

I had one today that I was chasing for bit. Bank 2 intake was off 13 degrees. I thought I saw there was a tool that you could check the tone wheel position but couldn’t find it online. When I pulled the cam and set the 2 cams side by side, you could see the difference in positionI got of the tone wheel.

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Jose Diagnostician
Indiana
Jose
 

I should have left the cam out, I reinstalled it and checked the timing again and it was off right away. Did you use those hole slots as reference on the magnetic tone ring? My picture shows the cam upright as if it was in time on the engine.

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Dan Technician
Illinois
Dan
 

I held both cams side by side without touching with the hole in the tone wheel up and I could see that the lobes were off slightly from one cam to the other. When I started the engine, it was below 2 degrees as were 2 other cams. One was at 4 defrees so maybe that’s the next one to go.

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Caleb Diagnostician
Indiana
Caleb
 

Jose, not sure if you saw my reply or not the other day. Go in cylinder on both banks. Compare the IVC and EVO events. If they match then the issue is not base timing. The PCM reads off the end of the cam opposite the chains. If the cams are in time bank to bank when checking in cylinder then the chains, guides, phasers, and tensioners are good.

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Jose Diagnostician
Indiana
Jose
 

Do you suggest doing this during crank or engine running? Also, doing one at time and using overlays should work no? The reason I ask if they should be done at the same time is because I have only one pressure transducer. The upper intake is flush on top of the bank 2 coils and the engine will run rough because the throttle plate will be missing if I were to remove the upper intake with throttle…

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Caleb Diagnostician
Indiana
Caleb
 

Cranking and one at a time is fine. I have put a WPS500 in cylinder 2 on this engine and reinstalled the upper intake an ran the engine no problem. If you do it running tho be sure to unplug all the solenoids so you dont get any phasing. Not sure about overlays. Just put 720° markers between compression towers and measure events that way. Only takes a couple minutes.

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