Readiness Monitors-Again

Jamey Owner/Technician Ventura, California Posted   Latest  
Discussion
Driveability
2013 BMW M3 4.0L (S65B40A) 7-spd (GS7D36SG) — WBSKG9C53DJ595290
Catalytic Converter Not Ready

Greetings, I have this M3 that a good customer just bought.... It is set up for the track, track tires, suspension, brake up grades, the works. I am certain it was "Tuned" before he bought it. When I tried to smog it, it failed for the Converter Monitor not ready. He drove it about 200 miles on the freeway since he bought it. When I try to run the monitor, it says the CAT is enabled, but it will not run. The Drive cycle is pretty much just drive easy and do not exceed 3000 RPM or 60 MPH. I have tried on the dyno and on the street. (over 300 miles) I know it was tuned because it had clamps on the converters, factory is weld in. There is a program that deletes the converters on these M3's and you install pipes where the converters were and then install the tune. I know this because my son-in-law did it to his, and then had to put it back to factory because I wouldn't smog it! I have replaced the gaskets at the header pipe, and I welded in the converters. (No air leaks)

The OBD II tests show some interesting numbers. I am thinking it may still have "Tuning" applied. The upstream O2's show normal Min/Max and Actual values. However the downstream sensor show the Min/Max and Actual to be all the same number??? The O2 monitors have all completed and passed. I have watched them pass on the drive cycles I have ran. When I clear monitors and set everything back to Not Ready, none of the Min/Max/Actual numbers for the down stream sensors change. Makes me think something is rotten in the program. I am thinking about flashing it, but I think some tunes over write the test values stored. 

I attached the results from the OBD test results. This is with all monitors EXCEPT Cat.

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Caleb Technician
Mishawaka, Indiana
Caleb Default
 

Let others chime in more experienced but yes lol if all the values read the same someone has definitely been playing around in there for sure. Definitely not going to monitor the CATS with stuck values.

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Anthony Technical Support Specialist
Kirkwood, Pennsylvania
Anthony Default
 

Hi Jamey: In your Mode $09C screenshot, I'm curious how the EGR monitor managed to run to completion more than twice as often as it attempted to run at all. The same question with AIR and Evap. Guido

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Randy Analyst
Denver, Colorado
Randy Default
 

G, the denominator is simply the generic drive cycle which is 10 minutes of driving with a few qualifiers. If the monitor completes in under 10 minutes, the numerator counts 1 and the denominator does not count up.

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Anthony Technical Support Specialist
Kirkwood, Pennsylvania
Anthony Default
 

Hi Randy: That's one hell of a parlor trick you have there. I didn't even call your name. I was hoping that you would pop in because I was unsure of the counter incrementing up. Thank for the clarification. Guido

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Randy Analyst
Denver, Colorado
Randy Default
 

Bad descriptors, see my other response. :)

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Randy Analyst
Denver, Colorado
Randy Default
   

Those are the SAE specified TIDs and are constants as labeled. They are not measurements, they are fixed values so they are behaving as expected. The tool is not helpful In the way it is displaying items though. It’s making me assume some things I would not have to assume if the tool had better display.

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Jamey Owner/Technician
Ventura, California
Jamey Default
 

I have used the tool in the past with good results. Mostly on Asian and Domestic, but I am having some “trust issues” on European makes. Can you elaborate on what is being displayed and why? If OBD II is “standardized“ (don’t laugh) why would one tool display parameters different than another? If I scratch a check for the Silver Scanner, can it be trusted to display more useful parameters?…

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Randy Analyst
Denver, Colorado
Randy Default
   

Vehicle OBD is standardized, scan tools are not. Actually, There is a standard for them but few if any use it. A car manufacture has to meet a production verification test, j1699-3 but anyone can make a tool and sell it. An example is j1699-2 is for scan tools and I can’t find a single company selling the software. If I want to use it, I have to write it myself. If anyone reading this works for…

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Steve Instructor
Irvine, California
Steve Default
 

Randy, As we discussed last week, would not PID 41 help in this manner, especially before and after a test drive. A before and after screen capture of IUMPR would be nice. You are right about Cal Id and CVN,having them would be nice.

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Randy Analyst
Denver, Colorado
Randy Default
 

Jamey used the word "enabled" so I assume he was looking at PID 41 but, yes, I would need more to comment on whether it is tuned or not (probably is). I just answered his base question, should the min/max/actual be the same. Here is a 2011 BMW 535XI with no issues, readiness complete, factory programming: diag​.​net/file/f2a9va4ma…

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Danny Technician
Losangeles, California
Danny Default
 

The generic OBDII scan tool I use is OBD Fusion, an Android app. play​.​google​.​com/store/apps/det… The enhanced version will cost you $4.99

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Jamey Owner/Technician
Ventura, California
Jamey Default
   

Here is the calibration #'s If I can believe my data, Component $82 and $85 show a fail. I am "assuming" it is because the monitor is incomplete?? Thanks for the screen shot of the 535XI. good to see similar results, I am just paranoid of a "tune" on this beast.

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Randy Analyst
Denver, Colorado
Randy Default
 

Where is 82 and 85? starting with the current mode $06 regulation, they are not allowed to show a fail in $06 without a DTC. Relink or upload what you are talking about.

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Jamey Owner/Technician
Ventura, California
Jamey Default
 

Here is the page from the report

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Randy Analyst
Denver, Colorado
Randy Default
 

But it's not a fail. Look at the values, range -8 to 8 with a result of 0.10. About dead center, neither too high nor too low. It's a pass but your tool labeled it as a fail because it can't handle negative numbers. Also, why is it missing the descriptors for MID 35 and 36? Those are VVT bank 1 and 2. I don't trust it, wouldn't use it. I see this a lot with scantools.

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Jamey Owner/Technician
Ventura, California
Jamey Default
 

Maybe I should grab my oldest tool in the cabinet! It’s reading correctly!

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Jamey Owner/Technician
Ventura, California
Jamey Default
 

Well.....the customer came by and wanted me to talk to the guy he bought the car from. I got on the phone with him and he tells me his tuner "coded" the rear O2 sensors off, because he removed the CAT's............. I said well, that will cause the monitor not to run! So I will call Autologic in the morning and have Eric send me the factory file. Gotta love it when you get the full story only…

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Randy Analyst
Denver, Colorado
Randy Default
 

Well, you knew the answer before you posted, you just needed proof. BTW, cover your butt on this one, flash backs don’t always take, and this one has a tell tale I can’t discuss here.

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Jamey Owner/Technician
Ventura, California
Jamey Default
 

and this one has a tell tale I can’t discuss here. … or … please do tell :-)

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Jamey Owner/Technician
Ventura, California
Jamey Default
 

I programmed the DME this morning and the CAT monitor ran and passed on the first drive cycle. I still need to complete the O2 monitor, but it was ready before I started this. I got bogged down in the data, I was trying to use the Mode 6 to determine if the DME was "Tuned" I was sure it was, just would like to be able to analyze the numbers and come to that conclusion. I could have just…

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Randy Analyst
Denver, Colorado
Randy Default
 

Glad you got it done and thanks for sharing. It's always interesting to follow your posts, they are never simple.:) It would be interesting to see the same mode $06 and $09 data you should earlier in the post.

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Jamey Owner/Technician
Ventura, California
Jamey Default
 

Here are some more fun pages to digest. This is after flashing the DME, running all monitors EXCEPT EVAP, and completing the smog test.

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Rex Technical Support Specialist
Alliance, Ohio
Rex Default
 

Randy, please excuse a very dumb question. Can one scan tool read both OBD and OBD HD? How are OBD for automotive (light duty) and OBD HD related? Thank you.

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Randy Analyst
Denver, Colorado
Randy Default
 

Yes to your first question. Not much relation between the two. Second question, J1979 is for light duty and j1939 is for heavy duty, it’s best to look at them as separate systems.

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Rex Technical Support Specialist
Alliance, Ohio
Rex Default
 

Got it (I think). Thank you.

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Dean Owner
Albany, New York
Dean Default
 

It is tuned. I can tell you it was tuned to ignore and turn off the downstream 02 's. Most likely because the cats were deleted.

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Jamey Owner/Technician
Ventura, California
Jamey Default
 

Your correct Dean. I suspected this all along, but I was trying to find something in the OBD Mode 6 that confirmed it. If this was a Ford, GM or FCA product, I would flash first and ask questions later, but on BMW, I am a little less aggressive about just flashing all willy nilly. I will flash it today, then try to set readiness. Thanks for you help

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Rick Educator
Concord, California
Rick Default
 

Jamey, In MODE $06 does the downstream O2 reset to Zero for Min/Max/Actual after a clear without starting the vehicle? If not, these are default inserted by the tuned program. Regarding your MODE $09 In -Use Performance Tracking, the 2164 means the CAT Monitor Criteria was met and the PCM could have determined a Pass or Fail condition this many times. It doesn't tell its recent history of…

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Jamey Owner/Technician
Ventura, California
Jamey Default
 

Here are the O2 Min/Max values. They never changed. If I cleared the codes, they were fixed

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