P0340 on Hyundai Santa Fe

Randy Diagnostician Glendora, California Posted   Latest   Edited  
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2001 Hyundai Santa Fe GL 2.4L 5-spd
P0340 - Camshaft Position Sensor "A" Circuit Bank 1 or Single Sensor
Starts And Dies

Car starts and runs for about 5 seconds and dies . Fuel injectors shutting off . Code p0340 new cam sensor installed . Code still setting . Scoped cam signal at ecm and all looks good . Car does not have any anti theft built in. checked cam and crank alignment with timing cover off and good 

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Jj Technician
Quincy, Massachusetts
Jj Default
 

May want to check crank signal too. Those can throw a p0340 with a bad crank.

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Randy Diagnostician
Glendora, California
Randy Default
 

I did. It has good signal at ecm

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Jj Technician
Quincy, Massachusetts
Jj Default
 

Check ECM connector condition and drag test relevant pins. Maybe signal is making it to the connector but getting disrupted on its way into the ECM?

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Randy Diagnostician
Glendora, California
Randy Default
 

already did that

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Edwin Technician
Ogden, Utah
Edwin Default
 

Is it repeatable & are you scoping both cam & crank at time of failure?

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Randy Diagnostician
Glendora, California
Randy Default
 

yes. no lose of signal

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George Diagnostician
Burnaby, British Columbia
George Default
 

Hi Randy what happens to the cam and crank signal at the exact point it stalls do they diminish slowly or is it an abrupt loss of signal this should be a clue also would moniture an ignition feed with cam and crank to see if your lossing ignition feed

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Randy Diagnostician
Glendora, California
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diminish slowly

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George Diagnostician
Burnaby, British Columbia
George Default
 

Then you know now it is not cam and crank will have moniture all other vital outputs and compare to crank to see what what goes down first make sure you zoom as to not miss a glitch especially on cam and crank which would look like it diminished slowly after the glitch if not zoomed in all the way

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Randy Diagnostician
Glendora, California
Randy Default
 

Car runs for about 5 seconds then ecm turns injectors off . Still have spark when this happens

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George Diagnostician
Burnaby, British Columbia
George Default
 

That screams of a security issue when it is so duplicative maybe time to talk to customers to see if any one replaced with used modules

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Randy Diagnostician
Glendora, California
Randy Default
 

Car has no security system. And this original ecm

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George Diagnostician
Burnaby, British Columbia
George Default
 

If it will stay running with cam sensor discounted time to do cam crank correlation and compare with known good to see why ecm does not like cam signal ps always use oem for cam and crank sesors

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Jake Service Manager
Newport, Rhode Island
Jake Default
 

Factory cam sensor or aftermarket? If aftermarket, try a factory sensor. We've seen it quite a few times here. They do not like aftermarket cam sensors.

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Larry Owner/Technician
Ham Lake, Minnesota
Larry Default
 

I'm with Jake needs to be OEM sensor

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Stuart Mobile Technician
Blue Island, Illinois
Stuart Default
 

Are you sure the balance shaft is timed properly​.​Never know who or what was done to something that old​.​The timing belt would have to have been changed in 18 years.

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Randy Diagnostician
Glendora, California
Randy Default
 

Timing marks are all dead on . Belt was replaced about 4 years ago

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Caleb Technician
Mishawaka, Indiana
Caleb Default
 

Will it run if you unplug the Cam sensor?

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Randy Diagnostician
Glendora, California
Randy Default
 

yes

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Caleb Technician
Mishawaka, Indiana
Caleb Default
 

So with the cam sensor unplugged it continues to run and does not stall??

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Randy Diagnostician
Glendora, California
Randy Default
 

yes does the same thing

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Benjamin Diagnostician
Murfreesboro, Tennessee
Benjamin Default
 

Can you share the scope file?

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Randy Diagnostician
Glendora, California
Randy Default
 

I will try to save one tomorrow

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Randy Diagnostician
Glendora, California
Randy Default
 

Hi ben here is the capture

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Richard Technician
Stony Brook, New York
Richard Default
 

Looking at the waveform you attached it appears to me the cam sensor is no good. It is hanging up at towards the end of the file. Have you inspected whatever it uses for a tone ring? It seems even when it starts the cam sensor is to wide. I would definitely install a new sensor.

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Randy Diagnostician
Glendora, California
Randy Default
 

At the end is when car shuts off

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Randy Diagnostician
Glendora, California
Randy Default
 

Pulled ton ring yesterday . And it was fine. And already putt a oe sensor in it. Butt thanks for input

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Edwin Technician
Ogden, Utah
Edwin Default
 

Hey Randy, I just had an 02 with a 2.4 & a dead crank sensor. Here is my capture of cam & crank. The plateaus of the cam sensor waveform look different more noisy on yours. Not sure if that means anything. please let me know what you find or if this helps

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Randy Diagnostician
Glendora, California
Randy Default
 

Did you capture a good one after repair

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Edwin Technician
Ogden, Utah
Edwin Default
 

I did not the client towed it away

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Randy Diagnostician
Glendora, California
Randy Default
 

thanks anyway

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Edwin Technician
Ogden, Utah
Edwin Default
 

This sounds far fetched but I was in a class last night & the instructor shared a story of a 05 ish Kia that had similar issues to what you are explaining & he said it ended up being bad fuel. Sounds like it would be worth checking fuel quality maybe look into TSB's related to fuel & no start.

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Edwin Technician
Ogden, Utah
Edwin Default
 

I looked at your waveform again & I am still thinking the tops look weird. Is it possible something is back feeding into it that circuit. like maybe a ignition or injectors. Check harness. just babbling ideas I hope I'm not just repeating what you have already done. Good luck

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Jj Technician
Quincy, Massachusetts
Jj Default
   

Here's the typical correlation that Hyundai provides, it doesn't seem to match up with what you're getting. Edit: Cam sprocket pin sheared like James mentioned maybe?

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Walter Technician
Sarasota, Florida
Walter Default
 

Looks to me his cam signal is up side down, Invert A and it matches you picture

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Richard Technician
Stony Brook, New York
Richard Default
 

I have seen those connectors get banged up and cause intermittent stalling issues. Maybe have a helper crank the engine while you push on the connector and see if you can get it to run longer. I think the location of the sensor is right in front of the engine, facing you. If this is the engine setup I am thinking of.

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Randy Diagnostician
Glendora, California
Randy Default
 

Already pack probed all three wires and scoped it . It is all good

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James Educator
Jamesburg, New Jersey
James Default
 

Randy, I have seen 2 possibilities for this DTC when timing mark's are ok. 1. Check crank sprocket bolt. The orig torque was updated. Should be 116-123 ft/lbs. Trigger wheel behind sprocket walks on key 2. Another possibility is the cam sprocket may have moved on alignment pin. Sprocket hole will elongate, eventually pin will shear.

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John Diagnostician
Redlands, California
John Default
 

HI Randy. Is it possible that the wrong trigger or tone wheel for the cam sensor has been installed. We had a 2001 Mitsubishi that fooled us for a while. THere was a cam signal but it was not what the ECM wanted to see. The installed one on the car had a different length window on the trigger wheel. We had to get the correct factory part to fix the P0340 code. I also agree with the possibility…

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Randy Diagnostician
Glendora, California
Randy Default
 

Nothing has been done to this car for a long time . With cam or crank

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John Technician
Sarasota, Florida
John Default
 

I second what James said. Make sure the dowel pin or keyway, whatever it has isn't damaged on the cam gear.

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Benjamin Diagnostician
Murfreesboro, Tennessee
Benjamin Default
 

This thing is out of time to me. As everyone mentioned inspect the sprockets/reluctor a for wear.

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Benjamin Diagnostician
Murfreesboro, Tennessee
Benjamin Default
 

As long as your crank signal is not inverted this thing is out of time. If it is inverted then I still feel the cam or crank signal is shifted ever so slightly. (Meaning the key way may be worn).

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Jj Technician
Quincy, Massachusetts
Jj Default
 

Eyeballing the cam signal in the good example it does look different than the cam in the one Randy provided. Something whacky going on.

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Benjamin Diagnostician
Murfreesboro, Tennessee
Benjamin Default
 

Notice the wide tooth of the cam should always be centered with the crankshaft reluctor tooth.

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Jj Technician
Quincy, Massachusetts
Jj Default
 

Yeah, it's low when it should be high in Randy's capture. Either out of time or something happened with that cam would be my guess. The cam reluctor seems odd too, but it may just be me going crosseyed.

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Geoff Diagnostician
Lahaina, Hawaii
Geoff Default
 

Agreeing with JJ and Ben. also....I see what looks like a current ramp on every single CMP and CKP signal. I wonder whether the ECM is actually seeing that or if it's just the PICO leads seeing it.

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Randy Diagnostician
Glendora, California
Randy Default
   

I worked on this car about five years ago with a no power complaint and setting no codes ended up being the crank reluctor and spun 25 degrees retarded but never set a code . I agree with you on cam and crank correlation may be of . Butt this would not shut the injectors off after three seconds of running .

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Edwin Technician
Ogden, Utah
Edwin Default
 

Have you brain deaded or touched the battery cables together? To clear memory.

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Randy Diagnostician
Glendora, California
Randy Default
 

yep.

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Benjamin Diagnostician
Murfreesboro, Tennessee
Benjamin Default
   

The CMP signal controls the injector timing on this vehicles. If the signal is not right the ECM does not know what to do with it. I ran into a similar situation a while back on a Dodge Avenger that had a used engine installed. Everything looked perfect on the scope. However, FCA decided to go from a raised tooth on the crankshaft TDC to a missing tooth TDC. The used engine had a raised tooth…

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Randy Diagnostician
Glendora, California
Randy Default
   

talked to a engineer at Hyundai yesterday and he said this generation of the car would not set a cam and crank correlation code. so if you have inputs to ecm that is all it needs to run . remember early obd11. so what would cause injectors to just shut off

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Anthony Technical Support Specialist
Kirkwood, Pennsylvania
Anthony Default
 

Hi Randy: That only leaves RFI/EMI and/or bad ground (alternator?). The patterns are bothering me. The anomalies lessen/go away as RPM is fading. I wonder what they look like A/C Coupled. I'd be curious about what default strategy is when the CMP signal is lost. If it's "Tag, you're it", that explains it running when the CMP is disconnected. Guido

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Randy Diagnostician
Glendora, California
Randy Default
 

I saw the same thing bought new leds same pattern I think it may be the way I have my leads running . Will change on monday and recheck . I think it is were my pico scope is mounted to close to my laptop . Will post on monday

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Anthony Technical Support Specialist
Kirkwood, Pennsylvania
Anthony Default
 

Hi Randy: One of the folks here had an issue with skewed patterns. If memory serves, it was the laptop power supply. Guido

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Randy Diagnostician
Glendora, California
Randy Default
 

Yes I think that is it also .

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Jj Technician
Quincy, Massachusetts
Jj Default
 

Do they lose power or does the ECM just stop controlling them? Just wondering if the relay turns off or if the ECM gets fed up and just stops pulsing the injectors.

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Randy Diagnostician
Glendora, California
Randy Default
 

Computer is turning of injector pules

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Randy Diagnostician
Glendora, California
Randy Default
 

Here is a capture with injector being turned off

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Jj Technician
Quincy, Massachusetts
Jj Default
 

It's odd, and maybe I'm just reading too far into it, but those "ramps" also show up in the injector trace and they seem to coincide with the injectors firing. The thing is is they show up as a voltage decrease as opposed to an increase like in the cam and crank traces. Also they continue on after the ECM stops pulsing the injectors. It feels a bit like I'm grasping at this point, but I just…

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Randy Diagnostician
Glendora, California
Randy Default
 

You need to look at the forest amongs the trees

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Randy Diagnostician
Glendora, California
Randy Default
 

Butt if you unplug cam sensor it should still run and not turn injectors off . So what is turning injectors off . Throttle is closed rpm is under 1200 rpm its not fuel cut . Service info says cam sensor is to sync fuel injection for better control . Loss of injector comes from were ????

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Anthony Technical Support Specialist
Kirkwood, Pennsylvania
Anthony Default
 

Hi Randy: I can't speak for anyone else. I think the underlying question is not the what but the why. At least, that's what I'm trying to wrap my head around. Scott, if you're monitoring this thread, do you know which post Randy was replying to? (Hint, Hint.) Guido

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Chris Diagnostician
Bryans Road, Maryland
Chris Default
 

I looked but maybe i missed it. Did you say if these were OEM sensors?

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Randy Diagnostician
Glendora, California
Randy Default
 

yes oem

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Chris Diagnostician
Bryans Road, Maryland
Chris Default
 

I am no expert but I will make a few comments of what I see. The engine seems to be in time from what I can tell. But I think something is going on with the camshaft reluctor. The big tooth on the camshaft reluctor is twice as big as it should be. Also the rising edge of the small tooth is suppose to start around 88 degrees yours starts at about 130 degrees. I made a little drawling and hope it…

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Randy Diagnostician
Glendora, California
Randy Default
 

I would agree with you but look at the second capture I sent . Why is injector turning off.

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Benjamin Diagnostician
Murfreesboro, Tennessee
Benjamin Default
 

Nissans do the exact same thing. The ECM does not know how to interpret the signal so it kills the injectors. Basically, it just throws it‘s hands up and says “I don’t know what to do with this.” and shuts the injectors down.

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Randy Diagnostician
Glendora, California
Randy Default
   

This car should still run fine with cam sensor unplugged. And it does not . and setting a p0340 . circuit code. computer is seeing the signal . what is left

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Benjamin Diagnostician
Murfreesboro, Tennessee
Benjamin Default
   

Here is another known good... Your signals should match these and they don't. I haven't wrapped my head around what could be wrong yet though.

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Randy Diagnostician
Glendora, California
Randy Default
 

What is code description. Do not over think early obd11

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Benjamin Diagnostician
Murfreesboro, Tennessee
Benjamin Default
 

Now the question is why?

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Chris Diagnostician
Bryans Road, Maryland
Chris Default
   

Yea that gap should be more than double what it is now

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Randy Diagnostician
Glendora, California
Randy Default
 

Answer I will show pics tomorrow . Fed and calif

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Benjamin Diagnostician
Murfreesboro, Tennessee
Benjamin Default
   

If The Cam sensor signal could be flipped over it would be right. Due the signal it almost looks the same whether or not it is inverted (kind of like an optical illusion). Has the wiring been altered?

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Jj Technician
Quincy, Massachusetts
Jj Default
 

Yeah, it almost looks inverted.

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Chris Diagnostician
Bryans Road, Maryland
Chris Default
   

Some one swapped the power and ground wires maybe. But then why would this all of a sudden happen. I did a math channel and inverted it and it much closer but still off to the known good i have

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Randy Diagnostician
Glendora, California
Randy Default
 

This was my personnel car up to 3 months ago . Never any problems . I sold to customer and now this

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Chris Diagnostician
Bryans Road, Maryland
Chris Default
   

I would have to say the ecm is shutting it down because it does not like the cam pattern. Per what I read from Hyundai the injectors fire off the cam signal. So if you clearly have a Cam signal issue you need to figure that out first and fix that issue.

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Randy Diagnostician
Glendora, California
Randy Default
 

New oem cam sensor and reluctor wheel . Now what . What is code description po340

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Chris Diagnostician
Bryans Road, Maryland
Chris Default
 

Not likely but possibly a bad new cam sensor? If you replaced the reluctor wheel were you able to tell if it was the exact same? Maybe the marks are in different spots. Did this car just come in out of the blue with this issue and code?

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Randy Diagnostician
Glendora, California
Randy Default
 

No customer drove to work no problems . Came out to go to lunch and has this problem . Now what ???. Can some body answer my question?? What is the definition of this code

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Chris Diagnostician
Bryans Road, Maryland
Chris Default
   

Camshaft position sensor A circuit malf

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Randy Diagnostician
Glendora, California
Randy Default
 

So if you have signal at ecm what could be the problem

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Jj Technician
Quincy, Massachusetts
Jj Default
 

Power or ground to the ECM or the ECM itself?

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Randy Diagnostician
Glendora, California
Randy Default
 

So were would you go with that code ??? Ecm is seeing this I should in the capture . Early obd11 dumn ecm

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Tanner Instructor
Wellford, South Carolina
Tanner Default
   

Every time your cam signal happens it pulls your crank sensor pattern away from ground. something is wrong with the ground for the crank sensor either the wire or internally to the crank sensor. Please voltage drop the ground wire for the crank sensor or load test it. if it is fine then something is wrong with the crank sensor.

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Randy Diagnostician
Glendora, California
Randy Default
   

Thanks . Already ran separate ground and same thing . new oem crank sensor

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Tanner Instructor
Wellford, South Carolina
Tanner Default
   

Was that capture before or after? You have a bad ground to that sensor in that capture. So you may very well have multiple issues. I would also be concerned with AC ripple. also to clarify what did you run a separate ground for? The cam or crank sensor?

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Randy Diagnostician
Glendora, California
Randy Default
 

Cam sensor to battery

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Tanner Instructor
Wellford, South Carolina
Tanner Default
 

It is not the cam sensor that has the problem. The crank sensor or crank sensor circuit is where the ground problem is.

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Randy Diagnostician
Glendora, California
Randy Default
 

I will recheck today . Thanks

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Randy Diagnostician
Glendora, California
Randy Default
 

Post with fix it was ecm will post caps tomorrow . thanks to all you of for input

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Chris Diagnostician
Bryans Road, Maryland
Chris Default
 

Can you post a new cam crank after fix please

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Randy Diagnostician
Glendora, California
Randy Default
 

first capture bad . second capture good . notice the cam and crank correlation between the two. ....And how the signal in capture two is cleaner. only ecm replaced. explain this ..this is weird. outer limits weird

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Jj Technician
Quincy, Massachusetts
Jj Default
 

Coming in a little late here, but did you open the old ECM to see if there's anything obvious? Water intrusion or a burst cap or something?

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Randy Diagnostician
Glendora, California
Randy Default
 

No to busy this week will take home and inspect this weekend . Butt this is just to weird

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Randy Diagnostician
Glendora, California
Randy Default
 

Hi Jj Here is what i found . Over heated connector

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Anthony Technical Support Specialist
Kirkwood, Pennsylvania
Anthony Default
 

Hi Randy: Now we know the why. BTW, where did the moisture come from? Guido

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Randy Diagnostician
Glendora, California
Randy Default
 

Its not moisture I think . Looks like it just overheated that terminal . This is on the bottom side of ecm . Inside ecm cover has no signs of moisture .

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Anthony Technical Support Specialist
Kirkwood, Pennsylvania
Anthony Default
 

Hi Randy: I was looking at the first picture. Guido

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Jj Technician
Quincy, Massachusetts
Jj Default
 

Good stuff. Crazy that it was messing with the cam signal the way it was. I wish there was a resource for PCB schematics, I'd love to be able to dig even deeper and see what board level components were being messed with.

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Randy Diagnostician
Glendora, California
Randy Default
 

For a week now that is all I can think about . What would cause this . When car comes in next time for service im going to play around and see .

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Jj Technician
Quincy, Massachusetts
Jj Default
 

I agree with what Guido said, that first picture looks like moisture intrusion which in turn could have lead to the heating.

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