Permatex Right Stuff Black RTV
Our shop usually orders the OEM RTV for any job that requires sealant. We primarily work on Nissan, Honda and Toyota products. However, I have heard a lot of positive feedback about the Permatex “Right Stuff” Black RTV. Is there a reason why we should not use the Permatex product for all jobs requiring RTV? It would be nice to consolidate inventory and be able to dispense from a caulking gun.
That's what I use on virtually everything that calls for sealant. I first started using it way back when I worked at a tire shop, and I still use it to this day without ever having any problems with it. I think the main problem that people have with sealants (if they ever do have problems) is that they do not prep the surfaces properly. The surfaces have to be absolutely clean and dry…
I use acetone as a final wipe down for my Permatex Ultra Grey. Hondabond is also very good… and reasonably priced.
That's a good suggestion. I need to get a bottle for just shop use and make it a regular habit. Brake cleaner works OK too, until it gets EPAed.
Best stuff I ever used. I get it when it goes on sale at Napa.
Yes, actually the package that comes with two tubes and the caulking gun is cheaper per ounce than buying the tubes separately. At least that's the way it has been in the past. That way you get a new caulking gun every time and it costs less.
If only the caulk gun had the same quality as the sealant… we have had to improve / modify our gun to make it last any duration but I sure like that little caulk gun. The sealant is sold in either gray and black, we have used it for years without issues on euro and asian manufactures
I had always heard about “Hondabond”…. Going back into the 80's, IIRC, and used it to some degree back then, and it was awesome. Later, I noticed in my years at Ford, that the diesels (Powerstrokes) had this tough gray sealant on them that was very durable. I was in the Ford dealer back then, and I used the Ford equivalent to Hondabond, and was highly impressed. Someone, somewhere informed me…
I've removed old GM and Ford gray engine sealers (original sealant and when I had to go back into a job where I used OEM sealant) and find it to be much more difficult to remove than the Asian OE originally installed gray sealers and repairs using Ultra Grey (just noticing the official spelling with “e”, duly noted). I have been using OEM for domestics as a result. Plus they have different trans…
That's too bad because a small caulking gun is necessary to work inside the engine compartment. A full size cheap one works great if there's engine room space or working on parts on the bench.
Thats all I use even on my race engines it does what is suppose to do great product
I have used their pressurized gray, calking gray, and squeeze tube Ultra Gray on Honda, Nissan, and similar applications with good results. I do use 3 OE Toyota sealants (engine, coolant passage, trans) and OE domestic sealants per application though.
The best stuff I have used came from Audi. It was grey and super expensive but impressive. Had a saturn SL2 with so much blowby it would push out the valve cover gasket immediately after starting. Use the audi gasket maker and it never leaked again, LOL Permatex Right Stuff Grey is all I used at the shop.
Hi Michael, I have used the regular small tubes of Utra Black for years. I had too much waste with the larger pressure type tubes so I stopped using them. It's not like we have to use RTV everything these days. The worst people (cheapskates) are the ones that over use RTV to reseal old gaskets that should not be done. I have seen excess RTV creates all kinds of engine oil and cooling problems…
Normally for aluminum on aluminum, I use either Dirko, or Ultimate grey. Once, I did head gaskets on a Toyota 4.0l , and the timing cover came back leaking a year later. The manufacturer machined out a 2mm section on the right side, were the head met the block for some unknown reason, and that's where it was leaking. They even had a tsb for an oil leak in that spot, so I ordered a new timing…
Yeah, flippin' annoying. I do my best to ignore them unless they're dripping. Toyota FIPG 00103 is also date-critical. I don't know why we can't get the factory grey stuff.
We use Permatex almost exclusively, the only exception being we use Motorcraft rtv on Ford diesel applications. But really, they are very similar. It's a great product, and as noted if you buy the two pack it comes with a gun
Postive = Seals Negative = Need a jack hammer to take apart next time.
Hi Bill, I have found it helps to score the mating line, if possible, with a sharp knife tip. That helps with disassembly usually. That stuff does bond good though.
Same, and I try and start it with razor blades and soak in brake clean to soften where cracks open up. I just start wedging whatever is appropriote after that. I feel like I am going to have some broken parts on my hands some day.
Hi , I guess I will put my vote on the ultra gray, the one thing is it dries a little slower than some products, but it does give more time to assemble complex assemblys , I try to give it extra time to cure , as usual good cleaning is necessary, it seems to have something it that helps it to bond to the surface. Good luck.
hi me again, to Andrew Zellman, the ford stuff is super , has a strong ammonia smell , the ultra gray does not smell quite so strong, it used to be included with 7.3 td rear main seal kit, i priced it at the dealer, they were selling it 20 yrs ago at $38 for 6 oz tube, but it wood seal stuff like it meant business
The absolute best I have used is Mitsubishi OEM sealant, comes in a large tube like an extra, extra large toothpaste. Permatex Ultra Grey is my everyday choice for just about everything. Was OEM for Hyundai and Kia for some time. Permatex also has a sealant just for gar train repair and that thing is oil resistant, U can paste it on with oily residue on the surface. Mopar has a similar one in…
Martin - if you don’t mind me asking How is the fleet business and how did you get into opening that type of business ? I am always wanting to know if there is a better way .
Justin I am actually based in the Caribbean now, just never changed my handle. St.Lucia to be precise. It has lots of potential cause many companies are still foolishly thinking they can get it done with “someone who knows cars” and 2 sloopy parts changers. We bring quality customer service to it and cost management is key cause everyone is on a budget, especially now, You can…
I think the smell is acetic acid … which is why some sealants are not safe for all applications.
Navistar part # is 1830858C1 aka RTV T-442. for a 4.7 oz tube This is what came in the Ford kits. Still available from Navistar. About $…C1 10.3 oz tube about $75.00 This is grey in color and is called wacker in the SI. wacker.com/cms/en-sg/prod… may be the source. NAV started with this on the MV404 anf 446 gas engines which morphed into the 6.9 and the the 7.3 IDI…
I dont know if the formula is the same but Permatex Right Stuff Grey is all I ever used for years and years on everything, with out issues. I bet many of the OEM sealants are rebranded Right Stuff formula(I know Nissan Sealant is) And I agree with Bill,make sure you assemble everything properly, because that stuff is a real bear to take apart once its cured(BTDT)
Hi Rudy, My idea is to put everything together without planning to pull it back apart anytime soon.
I used it on Mercedes for many years,Very close to the factory sealant,if not the same.
“Right Stuff” is the only liquid sealant we use and have only had a problem on a hand full of vehicles and that is because we missed a damaged component.
This is all great to hear as I stock many types. The product available here in Aus is in a tube with a dispenser handle included and is said to be “1 minute”. Is this the same stuff?
I didn’t see anyone mention the main reason to use the right stuff. If I remember correctly it has a 1 minute cure time after applied. Where most other sealants are 12-24 hours. So if you are doing say a 1.0hour oil pan you don’t want to have to wait until the next day to get the car out of the shop.
Hi Travis, This stuff is not super glue. It has an assembly working time of one minute usually. It takes usually a couple of hours to cure partially. Most quality sealants do not rapid cure in less than 24 hours.
If you read the instructions it’s ready for oil in 1 minute.
Hi Travis, I have read the instructions many times, but I have to ask, why rush? For example, I have replaced hundreds of rear differential covers over the years, but none were rushed out the door with uncured sealant, Sure a component can be assembled and Permatex Right Stuff is great for resisting leaks before it fully cures. It does not through cure in 1 minute.
It's really amazing how something we take for granted on a daily basis can generate such convo and opinions. The power of sharing and individual choices. Hats off !!
Hi Martin, People have always been that way. They pick certain brands and are confident in them. Permatex makes lots of good products. It sure beats the cheaper alternatives. I like Permatex and CRC brands most of the time for shop materials. They may cost more, but you actually use less over the long term.
Not sure if this link will work: attendee.gotowebinar.com/register/90738… ASE had a 1 hour class in June sponsored by Permatex, worthy of watching. HTH
We use Permatex Ultra Black, Ultra Grey, and Gear Oil Gasket Maker for almost everything that specifies RTV Silicone, as appropriate. Our reseals last longer than the original. We tried Right Stuff, and had the only job that failed due to the sealant, ever. The stuff didn't cure all of the way through.
Which applications do you use Ultra Black for? Some folks feel Ultra Grey and Ultra Black are interchangeable.
Black has the highest engine oil resistance and is designed for some gasket bulk, whereas Grey is for high-compression and close-fitting interfaces where nearly all of the sealant will be squeezed out. Because of this and the traditional differences in design, Grey was originally marketed for Asian imports.
I recently had some e-mail correspondence with Permatex Tech Support regarding their equivalent for Toyota's 1207B (oil) and 1282B (coolant) sealants. Their recommendation was to use Ultra Grey over their other products. I was under the impression that their Right Stuff line of products produces a stronger seal due to their higher density, but perhaps that is not the case.
The one thing that concerns me when using a rigid tube like the pressurized or caulking tubes is that you can't mix the contents like you can with a soft tube. Maybe your bad experience was with old or separated product. Most automotive sealers aren't too critical about this, but as an example: I just got done trying to adhere new smoker door rope gasket using a purpose-built caulking tube from…
Yes, there is that aspect. I rarely knead the tubes (which are the only package that we use), but we do occasionally find some separation. We tried pressurized tubes and caulk-gun tubes, but went back to the squeeze tubes. Using them with the Valco tool works extremely well. valco-cp.com/tube%20grip%20…
This thread got me thinking about dispensers last night, and I've never used the Valco. I think I might end up getting it, but has anyone ever seen this the GTE Masterbead dispenser? gtetools.com/product/master… It looks cool, but also made of plastic and “not in stock” which makes me wonder if this is one of those fly-by-night or vaporware companies =/
I didn't address the issue with Right Stuff. It was fresh enough product, and appeared to be mixed correctly. When we disassembled it weeks later, the inner sealant was not discernably cured at all. I think that the outer sealant cures quickly and block the curing of the inner sealant. A Permatex rep has claimed that OEM's use Right Stuff, which would explain the great increase in premature…
I have gotten some RX timing cover reseal comebacks back with uncured sealant after months, which is a little disturbing. Toyota told us to pay attention to the expiration date on the tube, which is now printed on the crimp (never had that before). Don't quote me on this, but I think I've seen the factory grey stuff uncured, as well.
I have seen factory grey and black not fully cured. I had never really paid attention to the date codes until I had a job that just stayed soft several hours after assembly. After contacting Permatex support, I found that the sealant was well over one year old. I just gave it a few days to cure, and it worked just fine. We now keep less product on hand, though.
We hold reseals overnight now before putting any fluids back into the system. It takes longer, but we have fewer comebacks.
We typically do also. Warm humid weather greatly speeds curing, so some days we figure it is ready in a few hours.
Do you folks use 1207B for the entire timing cover, or do you also 1282B for the coolant-contact areas? I have heard mixed feedback on this topic.
I use 1282B for the coolant passages, haven't had any issues with it.
I apologize, I should have phrased my question differently. Have you witnessed any adverse effects from using 1207B on the entire cover? The 1282 product is extremely expensive ($90+/tube). According to Three Bond, pp. 16 and 20 of their catalog show 1207B and 1282B to have the same performance towards sealing coolant: threebond.com/wp-content/upl….pdf
Ahhh, yeah, sorry I misunderstood. I've never tried doing the whole cover in 1207. As far as I know, at least the last three years, that's been our standard practice to use the 1282 on the coolant passages. We don't buy a new tube for every job, though. It seems like the 1282 is much more stable than the 1207, so we are able to keep use it for at least a few jobs spread out over a few months.
Out of curiosity, I reached out to ThreeBond via their website. One of their representatives got back to me fairly quickly with the following response: "After speaking with my R&D department, I was advised that 1207B would be sufficient for your application. My colleague also added that "These are very similar products, the main differences are the viscosity, adhesion, and hardness of…
These are identical to Toyota's two main engine sealants: 1207B = … aka "FIPG” (every engine part except coolant passages) 1282B = … (coolant passages) At the dealer it was a losing battle to get the right sealer for coolant passages. I can tell you that we used FIPG on everything. Of particular note is the 3.4L truck V6 which had a major recall that included resealing the…
So even at the dealer you couldn't get them to give you “the right stuff” and still didn't have any issues? Interesting and thanks for sharing.
I bought a tube a while back and hope it's still good the next time I use it 😀 But yeah, the standard FIPG has proven itself effective by my observation.
The Right Stuff product is great because it doesn't need the curing time that the Permatex Ultra products need. Permatex recently introduced a new Optimum line of sealants which they're marketing as their top-tier sealant, but I don't recall it has the short cure time of The Right Stuff products.
Yeah, well, that's the difference in my shop's reality and that of most others….. I'm more geared to the artisanal rather than production model. And why not? After 46 years, I've earned the right to hand pick my customer base. This has allowed me to take my time, do the extra diligence not afforded to those who are concerned with car count and that almighty clock/dollar ratio. Funny thing; I…
Hi Michael, Whatever product you decide on, make sure to follow the label instruction along with and service information notes as required. I've seen even good RTV develop leaks by techs rushing a job... Also not cleaning the surfaces or getting distracted during assembly and letting it pre cure too long. Gasker Maker Comparsion Chart – Permatex
More than 10 years ago, our shop started using SS-5699 from Silicone Solutions (siliconesolutions.com/ss-5699.html) The owner used to work at Permatex? and started making his own products. They are a smaller company, easy to deal with. They offer many product and can make custom products. We order 10.3oz cartridges and 3oz tubes.
Wurth has also same type of silicone. If you have a rep it's worth to check pricing
Michael- While doing some quick reading on their website, it would seem that The Right Stuff grey or Ultra Grey is the best all around product to use. It is superior to the black products. permatex.com/wp-content/upl….pdf
Hi Michael, The right stuff comes in grey also, that might be beneficial because the black stands out and basically looks out of place on an aluminum engine assembly.
Hello Marlin, I clicked on your webinar link and it said it was ended and no way to restart it. There is an email mentioned for contact at ase. I have missed a few of their webinars and have not been able to view them afterwards if I had not preregistered for the class.
I use it for nearly every reseal job required RTV. Unless it is a Chrysler trans, then I get Chrysler RTV for ATF.
Hi Michael, Anyone who has had to disassemble parts after someone has used Indian Head Shellac, Aviation cement or 3M Yellow adhesive can appreciate using Permatex RTV's. I do not like jack hammering, prying and breaking covers to get them apart. Some of the older sealers were actually too strong.