Ford 3.5 Correlation

John Owner/Technician Massachusetts Posted   Latest  
Resolved
Driveability
2007 Lincoln MKX 3.5L (C) 6-spd (6F50) — 2LMDU88C47BJ33078
P0016 — Crankshaft Position - Camshaft Position Correlation Bank 1 Sensor A

Good morning, I have a fairly clean 07 3.5 from a regular customer. Engine internal is clean from regular oil changes. Vehicle came in for a leaking water pump. We installed a complete timing kit (chains tensioners and guides) from Cloyes and a Motorcraft water pump. Job went smoothly. We used the OE ford cam lock tool. All dots on chain lined up, rotated through twice everything lined up. The only thing that seemed odd was other than the dot and key way clock reference on the crank gear I am not seeing a timing mark for the crank.

I am now getting this bank one correlation code. (Rear head on this transverse mount) It takes about ten miles to set.

I installed a bank one VVT solenoid with same results. I am going back in to double check timing marks. If timing marks are good I will most likely install a new VVT actuator. (phaser). 

I can do cam crank correlation w scope but would really like to see in there.

Am I barking up the right tree? Is the crank to bank one off or is the phaser getting stuck? Good Times!! 

Thanks 

John 

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Ray Diagnostician
Ontario
Ray
 

2010 Ford Edge 3.5 cmp ckp

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Chris Technical Support Specialist
New York
Chris
 

Why not just monitor the live data? 0° is the base line for no commanded advance (0%DC) for each cam.

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Harm Technician
Ontario
Harm
 

I agree the scanner will show how much the timing of cams are out . We had one last week and it was showing 14 degrees on scanner. We had to put oem chain in it. the thensioner plunger was out about ¾" on the old chain and the new chain the tensioner plunger was about 3/8" some manufacturers had a spec on tensioner measurements but I could not find any on these.

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Eric Manager
Arizona
Eric
 

This may seam elementary but the first time we did one did not see that secondary timing chain tensioners have to be manually set. If not released will get timing codes. Beyond that never had a problem with these kits. We also use Cloyes kits.

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Anthony Owner
New York
Anthony
 

this past year we did 3 timing kits, 2 ford 3.5 and a gm 3.6. we did EVERYTHING. chains, tensioners, phasers, solenoids. purchased complete Cloyes kits. the kits are junk. 2 came back. the gm with a broken chain. and 1 ford with misfire codes. if you are going to replace phaser gears or solenoids, purchase right from ford. as far as yours goes, if the correlation code was not there before the…

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Scott Owner/Technician
Michigan
Scott
 

If it was in my shop I would scope it and compare to known good then tear it apart, find the problem and fix it, while in there remove everything that came from cloyes and replace with ford oem I dont sell as many timing jobs these days because I quote it with oem only and most dont want to pay the price… the ones I do sell I dont have to worry about

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Michael Technician
Indiana
Michael
 

Scott, I've found on the last couple I did, that the dealer beat my prices from Napa. So much so, that the last GM 2012 2.4 and 1.8 Belt driven, I got everything from the Dealer and saved. I've started checking on lots of stuff now. Napa wanted 180.00 for a reman starter for my 11 Lacross, New from gm, 200. Couldn't believe it. Hope I didn't just break some rule. You know how it is nowadays, The…

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Scott Manager
California
Scott
 

A quick search here on DN produced several results. diag​.​net/file/f7cgbrwek… ​ This one matches your engine code:

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Gregory Owner/Technician
Florida
Gregory
 

NEVER use aftermarket tensioners. We have been bit to many times. The after market tensioners are junk, the rest of the kit, guides, chain seem to be ok. We have been getting the kits and throwing the tensioner in the garbage and getting O.E.

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Michael Technician
Indiana
Michael
 

Show off

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Stephen Owner/Technician
California
Stephen
 

I know it's a mute point now, but with the amount of labor involved, always use OEM.

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John Owner/Technician
Massachusetts
John
 

Thanks for the input. I monitored cam pids and am seeing 5 deg bank 2 and 14 deg bank one. Just to clarify I am confident I am out of time the question is why? I wanted to know if the cam phaser could cause the issue but after your replies I am more inclined to think it is the aftermarket chain. I did not know they came too long. That makes the most sense. This is the first one one of these…

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Harm Technician
Ontario
Harm
 

The chain should fight you when putting it on. This is exactly what we had. Measure the plunger on the tensioner.

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John Owner/Technician
Massachusetts
John
 

Good to know. TY. I will definitely measure tensioner extension and chain. Just triple checking on the crank timing marks. Other than the chain dots there are no other marks?

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Chris Technical Support Specialist
New York
Chris
 

When resetting the small chains, extend the timing marks with a sharpie up the back of the gear to allow for you to verify alignment after installation. The marks are not really able to be seen once the cam gears are installed. this will let you make sure the gears and short chains are aligned after installing on the cams.

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Don Owner/Technician
Texas
Don
 

Another issue I have seen is the chain WILL jump if the crank is moved CCW at all.

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Marlin Technician
Oregon
Marlin
 

It doesn't unless there is a fault.

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John Owner/Technician
Massachusetts
John Resolution
 

So I learned a lot on this one. - Count the links. This is where I made a mistake. I was off from front cam to crank. Scan tool offset showed this. Scope capture proved it - OE defiantly made a difference on how tight chain is. I do remember another Cloyes kit way back breaking and bending a valve. - For the millionth time, stay out of the the rabbit hole. Was blowing VVT codes on single…

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