Let's give this a try…
I was at TST this past weekend and heard about bounties. Figured I would give it a try.
The vehicle is a 2008 VW GTI. The car seems to run fine. It came in with a P0016. I've replaced the cam and crank sensors and still the code remains. I can clear the code and it will come back after a hard pull.
I have checked all the wires and fuses. Everything seems to be ok. Any ideas?
When you say you have checked ALL the wires, what do you mean by that? There are A LOT of wires on these vehicles. Personally, I would be looking at a timing chain stretch issue on this engine. Have you done that yet?
Timing stretch? I will check it out! I checked the wires from the cam and crank sensor to the computer. they seem good.
A few things can happen with these, but I would recommend pulling the vvt solenoid out of the front of the timing chain cover and inspecting the spool valve. The center can pop out and change the timing. I know a few more people will chime in with more in depth answers too.
This one hasn’t failed, but there is a button in the center that should move freely about 2mm into the spool valve. When it’s bad, it protrudes out (towards the camera) about 2mm and is stuck. This can change the timing.
Here’s a more clear photo
The Timing chain tensioner can also be inspected easily. There is a plug In the front lower cover. Pop it out and use a mirror or boroscope to look at it. I usually like to see around 5 notches exposed. This one pictured is bad and requires replacing. I just used a mirror to inspect this one. There is an early style and late style. The early has a barrel shape clip that falls out. there will be
The DTC set criteria list a correlation fault, start by scoping the CMP and CKP patterns at the PCM first to make sure they are at least functioning, then compare them to a known good to see if they are in "Time". These CCTA engines have known tensikner failures, so it could have just jumped time.
I do not have a scope. If I can borrow one, what would I be looking for
A scan tool capable of looking at measuring values will tell you a lot with out a scope. I just grabbed this off a 2012 Tiguan I just happen to be sitting in. This is at idle. I can see that in MBV 93.3, the phase position is 4.24*. Zero is ideal, but it won't set a fault until above 8* or so. I suspect your car is going to be higher.
As Hans stated, enhanced scan data may be usable if your scan tool will show it. You are looking for a variance of less than 9 degrees according to set criteria, but you want to look at it at the time and running conditions that the code sets, so if it happens only under acceleration you have even more evidence that a streched chain or failing tensioner is plausable.
Silly question, but have we verified the correct oil level and weight? Is there any data showing desired and actual cam phaser position? I would monitor that if you can. I would also inspect the variable cam timing solenoids for debris and verify they are operating.
Thanks Martin. Where would I find the desired and actual cam phaser position? I have changed the oil with 5/40 liquimoly and a mann filter.
It's been stated already but a capable scanner should have timing data available. Great info has been given. Glad you found the problem.
What is the mileage on the vehicle? These are notorious for T chain issues, - any engine noise?
Hello Ron Have you check out this TSB
No, I haven't seen that. Thanks.
As Hans said, check that the spool valve is returning all the way. If you push in on the center it should pop back out to the stop. Otherwise, there is info in SI on checking timing. You pull the top timing cover off, rotate the crank to TDC using a dial indicator to measure (There is a dot on the timing cover that should get you close as long as nothing has slipped on the crank) and measure the
This is great information. I am going to pull my cover off and measure. thanks!
I pulled my front cover off and found a spec online. my chain is way out! Thanks for the help!!
Make sure to inspect the camshaft bridge closely when you remove it. The screens like to fall out of the oil passage.
Buy the tool set to do the job and follow the instructions exactly. As others have said, be sure to check the cam bridge for the screens and check the cam for scoring. I always replace the oil control valve in the intake cam having been burned by a few. Its not a bad job but tedious and intimidating if you have never done one
If a YouTube video won't offend you, this is what i would do youtu.be/U1Nzh_MYvu0 Edit: totally didn't realize you confirmed a timing issue already 😆
Mario, that was a professional diag. You gathered information on the complaint that led you to make some pinpoint tests. Those tests led you to remove the cover and confirm the fault. No guess work, no assumptions, just proper tests and 100% confirmation. Nice work and I'm not even offended by the video. ;-)