Unintended Air Bag Deployment While Driving
My customer had scheduled a appointment for his Audi TT what he thought was a strange electrical issue, He stated while driving on the highway the vehicle would intermittently turn on the hazard lights and quit running if he coasted to the side of the road and cycled the key the vehicle would drive again.... This happened 5 times in 1 one month. Before he was able to get the vehicle in to us while driving down the road both side air bags (seats) deployed! I do a lot of air bag work and have never encountered such a thing??
Engine controller has Fault P1609 Crash Shut down Activated. That explains his flashing hazards and vehicle turning off while driving.... (Other faults stored in ENG -P0411 secondary air , P1116 Oxygen sensor, P1453 Exhaust temp sensor. Customer normally drives with engine light on these codes usually present)
SRS controller has only the 2 deployed air bags (#01218 & #01217) stored nothing else.
I have accessed both side air bag sensors under the front seats - no sign of water leakage or rodents.... I have loaded the ground side of both sensors and voltage dropped from the connector to G43 ground. (Both .3v) I have read over theory and description of SRS and think it must have been a false input from a side senor or malfunctioning SRS module to cause such a thing??? But i really dont know what caused it and i hate to replace all these parts and have it happen again. What do you think? what would you test?
I would suggest pulling the control module and inspect for possible liquid damage. I would also see if there is recall for this vehicle for airbags. I have a 2007 B7 and just had both front bags replaced under warranty. I know this is entirely different issue but worth a try. I too have never heard of anything like this...keep us posted on your findings. Just another thought, give the…
I think there is a lot of liability in accidental deployments. Factory support sometimes required waivers to be signed before even considering evaluating the vehicles. Just tread lightly.
How is the vehicle, is there any body damage? How about the undercarriage? The seat sensor is set off by the module, water or moisture could be an issue. The SSP states the crash sensor is integrated in the module.
I’d be careful here. You have to inspect all impact sensor wiring etc. also need to evaluate the vehicles suspension. Had a bmw with crash detected over a pothole. Also had a civic deploy under same circumstance. Given the customer driving with active codes I’d bet suspension is due for a big job and this can be the difference between airbag deploy or not over a pothole!
I would have them contact Audi and back out of any work on the car. Any airbag deployment that is not wreck related has to go under manufacturer. Too much liability.
If you can get any help from factory folks, I believe they can interrogate the SRS module and get more details than what we normally see. There is a deeper data recording in most vehicles, black box sort of thing.
To the best of my knowledge Audi from 03 will offer almost no usable information. Some manufacturers fought this up until the very end not that long ago
There are only two people at VW/Audi that can officially get into the crash data from the module. The last report that I read was over 20 pages off a 2018 Q3.
To the best of my knowledge Audi and bmw were the least compliant with this technology only supporting it in 2015
I was not given a year of when the support started. that was beyond our pay grade. When I attended Bosch training they said they had the the technology back in the 90's.
Hi Steve, I'm veering off here, but, I was surprised recently when I read that some OEM's do not want cores on SRS modules. I always thought they collected and dissected all that data.
The oems won’t but accident reconstructor will. Bosch cdr tool will get you to 90% capability on modern cars. Heavy duty may need different tooling or oem only depending. In my area this is only done with gross negligence or fatality typically
A-ha! The accident team takes them, OK, cool, thank you. p.s. My grandpa was born in Newark.
Manny, The Bosch tool is what was used for the vehicles in the training center.
I have also inspected the SRS control module and connector. As well as tracking the wire harness (visible areas without major disassembly) Sorry forgot to write it. Customer tells me there was no impact when the bags deployed. There had been a intermittent SRS indicator for some time they do tell me although I have only the 2 codes stored in the module for the deployed components currently…
Intermittent loss of ground can definitely cause airbag to fire. Had this happen on a gm sitting in the parking lot ig off. I still recommend to check suspension on this car. It’s very likely customer bottomed out which on vehicles of this era would def cause side airbags to pop. BMW had recall for this exact issue in 03 etc
Your post got me thinking, does a side impact trigger the seat belt to try and retain the driver in their seat? googled it quickly did not find anything on it.
Reading service and repair theory of operation it states frontal collision can command seat belts and driver/pass cushion modules, side bags are deployed using the lateral acceleration sensors (side sensors)
Hey James, My personal experience with this involved a 16 honda civic. Pothole caused both seat belt tensioner and curtain airbag to pop. We have potholes in the tri state area that can swallow a quarter clip easily.
One thing that I would be taking a hard look at is what is the code set criteria for the 1609 crash shut down code. I’m assuming it’s a signal from the srs module. But I would want to know for sure what commands that code and how. I would also wonder when that code is set if there is any freeze frame data anywhere or failure data stored to tell you what triggered i. I would think there would be…
Tanner i looked on the Bosch CDR (crash data retrieval) tool website they have a application list for there software it does not include Audi in 2003.... Looks like the domestic vehicles were mainly covered in that era. The data for fault 1609 states it is sent from SRS module to ECM .
Hi Bill, A few years back I got involved in an accident on a C7 Corvette. The customer had just picked it up from the local GM dealer who had programmed the ECM and he was thinking it was something related to that. He was on the way home and he said he gassed the car going around a slight corner and the car spun out of control. He said he did accelerate, but not to the point that the car…
Here's two people in Michigan - thecrashhub.com/united-states…
About 8 years ago I worked at a used European car dealership. We had an A6 that would do almost exactly this. Drive it around, out of nowhere it would kill the engine, unlock the doors, and roll down the windows. Same code stored in the module. Pulling the carpet up, I saw that the module was sitting in a small pool of water. The car went back to the auction.
This is only my opinion Ok last time you didn't handle well.. I am not intending to tell you that is the problem. it is for you to consider it as a new perspective. you said: what caused it and i hate to replace all these parts and have it happen again. What do you think? what would you test? Fault P1609 Crash Shut down Activated. This DTC Is caused by Cluster humidity. then R8 cluster will…
Victor no hard feelings here I suspect we had a misunderstanding of words in our last conversation. I do appreciate your input. Yes Both LF and RF seat air bags deployed while driving down the highway No impact or large pot holes.... Vehicle was acting up for the past month (hazard lights turning on vehicle turning off customer would cycle the key and drive several more days before it would…
I can't find for you an old VW Pdf that explained Zoning (zones of the car). it is a VW doc that explain crash sensor location and why they are in that place based on chassis straight or weakness... I google it, not luck.... this is a Volvo chassis Zone pic
"The pics you posted about dtc explanation doesn't apply to this old car" I have referenced the original Audi TT SSP for this info, the cluster is NOT part of the equation on this one far as I see. Signal is sent from SRS module to ECM and hazard warning switch.
...find in your super system: module J285 T32a/10 and everything will be explained. stil , the DTC explanation sheet I think (guess) is for 2008 Audi A4.
Victor - J285 = instrument cluster in VW/Audi. I am not sure what your trying to tell me here?? If you have some info that could help please share it!
You Said: "I have referenced the original Audi TT SSP for this info, the cluster is NOT part of the equation on this one far as I see. Signal is sent from SRS module to ECM and hazard warning switch. " yes it is. are we talking about Airbag light ? or hazard light? the airbag light will come on if you get that DTC and no incident.... then my explanation is...
I have contacted crash hub of Grand rapids Michigan per Scott C's info. I spoke with David Shepard about the issue he stated he did not have equipment for this Audi and was unsure due to age and make.... I have a long relationship with this customer and vehicle so we are going to make repairs and have customer sign a liability form. Parts are now back ordered from Audi... I will follow up.