2018 F150 3.5L Gasoline engine P016D

Randy Diagnostician Colorado Posted   Latest   Edited  
Resolved
Driveability
2018 Ford F-150 XL 3.5L (G) 6-spd (6R80)
P016D — Excessive Time To Enter Closed Loop Fuel Pressure Control
Stall And Stumble

Has anyone seen a P016D set on a similar vehicle to this? The only reference I have for Ford is on their diesel engines, nothing listed for gas.

Background is this vehicle runs rich at times, sets various rich DTCs, can stall and stumble. Lots of parts (all OEM) have been installed trying to fix it with no luck. I got called in and during diagnosis I cleared KAM. On the next start P016D set as a pending DTC. Soon after a P2986 and P0175. P016D had not been there before that I am aware of. I would like to either eliminate this as a possibility or confirm it is the cause of the rich condition. While the condition is very intermittent, I did the KAM clear while fuel trims were in the -50% area at idle. They returned to the same soon after starting. After restart CO was 3.6%. During closed loop fault it settled at 1.6%.

Also, can anyone explain why Ford desired fuel pressure does not match actual on at least most GDI Fords? Desired shows 398.7 psi with actual at 1999.5 psi in this picture. I have verified this same reading with other scan tools and other vehicles so it's not an issue, just a curiosity.

I have tons of data that I am still evaluating but if I could get an answer on the P016D for now that would be very helpful.

diag​.​net/file/f28svd0tt…

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Interesting
Caleb Diagnostician
Indiana
Caleb
   

Wow very cool issue. So here is my 2 cents. Does the rail pressure sensor respond? Example, if you disable the low pressure pump and run till it dies does the rail pressure sensor go to zero? After verifying it's operation sounds like the high pressure pump cam timing may have an issue. If you unplug the high pressure pump solenoid does the rail pressure max out or go to almost 0? Need to be…

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Randy Diagnostician
Colorado
Randy
 

I have not performed those steps at this time. It has new high pressure pump, cylinder heads, short block timing chain and tensioners and more…all by a certified Ford technician. Curious, what logic takes you to those steps based off what I wrote? Not disagreeing, just curious how you got there.

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Caleb Diagnostician
Indiana
Caleb
 

I'm sorry disregard everything I said. I did not see where you had found the rail pressure actual and desired discrepancy is normal on other cars. Also forgot its dual injection. Carry on!

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Rusty Owner/Technician
Massachusetts
Rusty
 

I’m skeptical of the scan tool here. Have you used an IDS or FRDS ( not sure which is applicable) ? I saw the fuel tank pressure PID that looked improbable to me so I’d wanna know if the FRP info is accurate before I’d take a direction.

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Caleb Diagnostician
Indiana
Caleb
 

The fuel tank pressure sensor is at 2.6 volts and nearly atmospheric pressure Rusty. How is that improbable for an EVAP system?? Seems perfect.

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Bob Technician
Massachusetts
Bob
 

2.6v looks ok but -131 "h2o

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Randy Diagnostician
Colorado
Randy
 

I have seen IDS show the same thing (398.7) on other vehicles. I have a lot of other data and FRP looks normal. I have cold start, hot start, test drive, IM240… I will look again but I checked purge system integrity pretty close.

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Glen Owner/Technician
Illinois
Glen
   

Randy, As per the above YMM Ford PC/ED does not show P016D as a valid code. Is it maybe P016A? I also am not seeing a P2986 for a 2018 F-150…Is this vehicle running a tune?

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Agree
Randy Diagnostician
Colorado
Randy
 

I did typo the P2986 (P2198) but that's not important. I am wanting to know about the P016D. Here is the log file showing that is what the PCM sent: 0.4002 1 7DF Tx d … 0.4098 1 7E9 Rx d … 0.4202 1 7E8 Rx d …D 00 00 00

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Martin Diagnostician
Texas
Martin
 

B1S1 o2 uA seems skewed rich to me? It's definitely not hovering around zero like B2S1. Biased o2 sensor perhaps? Leaking injector? Does high pressure fuel hold KOEO and increase in pressure due to hot soaking?

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Randy Diagnostician
Colorado
Randy
 

It is reading accurately. It is in closed loop fault, look at the loop PID 7th from the bottom. It is using B2 sensor for feedback and B1 is rich at this time. It will switch to the other bank as well.

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Martin Diagnostician
Texas
Martin
 

That's the PID that stood out to me. It actually that rich on bank 1. Ok, so I would think the p061D is a result of the rich condition. I wouldn't chase that code without fixing the rich condition first. You're post below with the known good FRP data leads me to think there is an injector leaking. Also the low side fuel pressure is about 20psi higher on the problem truck? Compensating for a…

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Bob Technician
Massachusetts
Bob
 

The Exhaust gas sensor current Bank to Bank is way off. B1S1 -570 to -425 B2S1 -62 to 47 That seems like a big problem

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Randy Diagnostician
Colorado
Randy
 

Read above. It's in closed loop fault at this time.

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Robert Technician
Michigan
Robert
 

Now I need Bifocals …Side to side feedback uA o2's in PFI idle Mode ?.. It dont use Ford rears trim control ,that is a new one flip flopping banks feedback for fuel trim and say scanner verifies this -500 is pretty rich Is this what you're saying ????? Even ifs I would think for an adjustment but current stays sort of 100uA in bounds graphs even tho they look like a heater graph …..Me Ford…

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Joel Mechanic
California
Joel
 

Are all of the electrical reading sound? Rail pressure voltage is too high but the fuel volume control valve is commanded at 0%. Also rail temp is too high as well it should be closer to 120f. Even in 100f weather highest I've seen is 138f. If you disconnect the the rail pressure sensor does temp go to -40 and rail pressure go to 0?

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Randy Diagnostician
Colorado
Randy
   

Here is a 2019 F150 3.5L HO with no issues (right side) compared to the 2018 with rich DTC set and in closed loop fault (left side). Not necessarily in the exact same condition but close. The main difference is the 2018 was prolonged idle in a shop whereas the 2019 was right after a test drive and not in a shop. The freeze frames for the rich codes are always at idle with system in port fuel…

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John Mobile Technician
Illinois
John
 

Hi Randy, You asked: “Also, can anyone explain why Ford desired fuel pressure does not match actual on at least most GDI Fords? Desired shows 398.7 psi with actual at 1999.5 psi in this picture. I have verified this same reading with other scan tools and other vehicles so it's not an issue, just a curiosity.” I only use IDS/FDRS on Fords; so my scan data experience is limited to that…

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Helpful
Interesting
Randy Diagnostician
Colorado
Randy
 

I was thinking that might be the case but wasn't sure. Thanks for the insight. I like your last thought.

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Marlin Technician
Oregon
Marlin
 

That is some very valuable input, thank you!

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Eric Owner/Technician
Wisconsin
Eric
 

Interesting case. Why are you focusing on the high pressure fuel system when the port fuel system is what operated during idle? Are you sure about the P016D code? I can't find it listed in any Ford information for the year and model of vehicle. Maybe the code is, P061D? P061D - Internal Control Module Engine Air Mass Performance Description: This DTC sets when an error occurs in the PCM…

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Helpful
Thanks
Randy Diagnostician
Colorado
Randy
 

Dang, you got it. I had written it down wrong and then I didn't see it correctly in the log file when I went to verify. Sometimes another set of eyes is what it takes. My excuse is, it took 4 hours of working on the vehicle before the problem showed up and I had been concentrating on the other DTCs and testing everything I could. When the problem finally showed up, I was working frantically to…

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Mike Instructor
California
Mike
 

BTDT. Not sure how old you are, but my excuse is always bi-focals.

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Funny
Jeff Owner/Technician
Massachusetts
Jeff
 

Ford DTC P016D Make: Ford Code: P016D Definition: Excessive Time To Enter Closed Loop Fuel Pressure Control Description: On every engine start with fuel temperature less than 40 °C (104 °F), the PCM checks the accuracy of the fuel rail pressure sensor by estimating the amount of effort required by the fuel pressure control valve to maintain pressure for a given fuel rail pressure…

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Randy Diagnostician
Colorado
Randy Resolution
 

Eric pointed me in the right direction. The DTC was actually P061D as seen in the log file: Here is the log file showing that is what the PCM sent: 0.4002 1 7DF Tx d … 0.4098 1 7E9 Rx d … 0.4202 1 7E8 Rx d …D 00 00 00 As I told him, I just needed another set of eyes to look at this.

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Rusty Owner/Technician
Massachusetts
Rusty
 

I see that you’re headed in the right direction now. Given that this thing seemingly had a bank trim imbalance that may be related to a MAF measurement problem and since it got a new motor, I‘d be doing an exhaust back-pressure test. Thanks for the thread, I learned a few things.

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Randy Diagnostician
Colorado
Randy
   

It's speed density. The reason I didn't go into the actual issue is because it's difficult to show the events in the correct context and the context of the events are critical. In addition, the scan tools I am using have PID lists that don't work well for this issue. Here is a run on the dyne without the fault present (CO = 0.03 gpm): diag​.​net/file/f6w79erg6… ​ Here is idle with…

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Rusty Owner/Technician
Massachusetts
Rusty
 

Is load at idle lower than 29% when the fault isn’t present? I’d expect it to be lower. It seems to me that a VVT issue would yield a DTC. Given the bank to bank trim variation I’m still leaning toward an exhaust restriction. Maybe a piece of substrate flopping around? Do we know what was wrong with the original engine?

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Randy Diagnostician
Colorado
Randy
   

The 2018 is the problem child and the 2019 is a known good. 2018 Idle calculated load = 31%: diag​.​net/file/f4gagj7ji… ​ 2019 idle calculated load = 31% : diag​.​net/file/f4o0gjz2x… ​ 2018 accel calculated load = 83% @ 25 mph: diag​.​net/file/f3qlw3phy… ​ 2019 accel accel calculated load = 83% @ 31 mph: diag​.​net/file/f44m6gzho… ​

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Rusty Owner/Technician
Massachusetts
Rusty
 

Maybe I’m misinterpreting something. ??? In your earlier “fault” capture calculated load was about 29% which seems high to me at idle. In the two idle captures above of both trucks the load is displayed more appropriately around 15-17% yet you‘ve inserted 31% Do we know what the previous catastrophic failure was? Doesn't the truck have a turbo for each bank? Do we know if they‘ve been…

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Randy Diagnostician
Colorado
Randy
 

Which load do you want, calculated or absolute? I posted both, that’s the difference.

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Randy Diagnostician
Colorado
Randy
 

Look at grams per cylinder for air flow. The 2018 actually has less for the same condition. If you have less mass of air measured then FT should be positive if it is wrong.

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Eric Owner/Technician
Wisconsin
Eric
 

Using “IT” in place of a name should be banned! ;-) Reading your above statement leaves me wondering exactly which “IT” is wrong, the MAF or the FT, or BOTH? lol

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Randy Diagnostician
Colorado
Randy
 

I hate that too, along with “they”, sorry. Kind of like saying “load” without defining which one. :) “..if it is wrong” refers to measured air flow as displayed in g/cy. I think air flow is fine, but I have been wrong before so I am happy to hear what Rusty has to say or what he sees. The truck has been running fine since that event.

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Rusty Owner/Technician
Massachusetts
Rusty
 

Rusty ? He’s thoroughly confused. I think you said it was S/D and now we’re talking about MAF. I’ll assume we are talking about calculated airflow. If it was in my lap I’d wanna know the history, why it got a motor. My thoughts are this: Its intermittently rich at idle and one bank is worse than the other. If we assume fuel pressure is equal bank-to-bank then that tells me one bank has…

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Randy Diagnostician
Colorado
Randy
 

Thanks Rusty. It is S/D. Eric used the MAF term and in my airflow calculation data there is a confusing label I have that states MAF (GPS) and indicates it is from the scan data. It is not for S/D engines. I calculate GPS within my calculator and then enter it into the field MAF (GPS). There is no MAF PID on any of my scan tools for this vehicle and that calculator is all my own doing. Mistakes…

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Robert Technician
Michigan
Robert
 

Following Duel Fuel P061D . I show exact same DTC sets as Eric .

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