No crank no start security light on

Doug Owner/Technician California Posted   Latest  
Resolved
Security
2013 Ford Fiesta SE 1.6L (J) 6-spd (DPS6)
No Crank / No Start

Greetings All. The Security light is on on this vehicle and it will not crank. My question is, on these vehicles when they have a security system fault will it disable the cranking system? I haven't made it to the vehicle yet but the customer states that the security light is on and blinking and it does not crank. He mentioned that after replacing the fob battery it will not turn over.

I thank you for any direction before I make it to the vehicle in a couple days! Doug

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Jeff Owner/Technician
Arizona
Jeff
 

Yes - they will be a no-crank when the immo is tripped.

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Lloyd Owner/Technician
New York
Lloyd
 

Agree with Jeff, ford will disable cranking when theft is triggered. Flashing theft light is signaling theft attempted. Sounds like they disturbed the transponder in the key head?

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Marti Owner/Technician
Michigan
Marti
 

I believe there is something else going on, as the battery in the FOB has no bearing on starting of the car….it is the Integrated or stand-alone chip that allows the car to Crank/start…..No battery required In regards to your Question, if the Security light is on/flashing(usually Very Fast) the vehicle will Not crank(or start)….however some Older Fords may function differently. Id suggest…

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Samuel Technician
New Jersey
Samuel
   

All said is correct….focus on getting the truth from the customer ….it is likely you will find that they replaced the battery in the fob thinking that would fix their problem and obviously something else is going on….unfortunately, customers lie…be ready 👍

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Robert Technician
Michigan
Robert
 

RKE is separate from pats & yes wont crank if applicable ;pats module goes to the starter relay control side ; pull the B codes …FoMoCo service shows Pats A on that .

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Al Diagnostician
Georgia
Al
 

I think it would be helpful if we could make it policy to POLYGRAPH all customers B4 we start diagnosing & tail chasing!! 🙂

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Jeff Owner/Technician
Arizona
Jeff
 

BTW - its seems that I've needed to replace an abnormally large number of PATS transceivers in Ford products from this year range … The symptoms will be what you are experiencing and the codes will make it look like a bad key.

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Interesting
Steven Owner/Technician
Illinois
Steven
 

It‘s probably a transponder key with buttons built in. If the vehicle has aftermarket sound equipment installed it can send a false theft attempt by having a circuit already powered up before turning on the ignition. When this happens the easiest way to reset is to pull the negative cable. Check the DLC for an aftermarket device too. The push button start fobs from the mid 2010’s are cheaply…

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Doug Owner/Technician
California
Doug Update
 

Thank you gentlemen! I'm waiting for the customer to get back to me so I can ask him more questions and I'm going to have him pull the battery cables and reset the computer to see if that might help. If his key has lost its ability to communicate with the Pats system does anyone know if the Snap-on or Launch scan tools would be able to program new ones or do I need the Ford IDS system to do…

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Jeff Owner/Technician
Arizona
Jeff
 

Autel will do it, so the Launch probably will, too.

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Doug Owner/Technician
California
Doug
 

That's what I was assuming Jeff thank you. They can program new keys but if you need to flash the PCM you need a J box and a Ford subscription am I correct?

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Jeff Owner/Technician
Arizona
Jeff
 

Yes.

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Jesse Engineer
Missouri
Jesse
 

Some of these transponder keys have the chip built into the circuit board. Others have a separate “pill” that presses into the key body. The pill is about the size of a grain of rice and is glass. There are other types also. When the customer changed batteries in the remote, they could have dropped the pill. I've had keys/chips die. They are not effected by the battery as they are not powered…

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Doug Owner/Technician
California
Doug
 

Very interesting thank you Jesse!

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Jeff Owner/Technician
Arizona
Jeff
 

In the Ford keys of this generation, the chip is black plastic, about the size of a sunflower kernal (its a 4D63) and embedded in the plastic near the key blade and parallel to it. There are makes with RFID immo keys that aren't passive and require a working fob battery to start the car.

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Doug Owner/Technician
California
Doug
 

Thanks Jeff the customer said he changed the battery and it didn't make any difference so it's got to be something else also.

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Jeff Owner/Technician
Arizona
Jeff
 

Yeah - those are definitely not active RF. I do a lot of replacement IMMO Rx/Rx modules on those.

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Marti Owner/Technician
Michigan
Marti
 

Again, id Scan all modules 1st….and follow any U or IMMO codes 1st. For instance, if the PCM is offline, No crank/FAST Immo light scenario….even tho Key may be good. Typically, PCM or BCM has Immo data….it will tell U in the data PIDs if the key is Valid or not….or give codes for incorrect transponder. If not, Try to program it again….as i Have saw a given module Lose its knowledge of working…

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Doug Owner/Technician
California
Doug
 

Will do thank you Marti. I just viewed the YouTube video that Brian (Ford Loco Man) that had a bad battery messing up the PCM IMMO key ID's. That was rare but happens… Will be going to the vehicle tomorrow.

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Jeff Owner/Technician
Arizona
Jeff
 

If not, Try to program it again….as i Have saw a given module Lose its knowledge of working keys…Rare, but happens….Keys/chips going Bad?….Yes…but Rare I'll have to disagree with you there. I've had to come behind quite a few locksmiths that “successfully” reprogrammed bad keys that worked for a day or two and then failed again. For instance, if the PCM is offline, No crank/FAST Immo light…

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Marti Owner/Technician
Michigan
Marti
 

By No means is Everything i say/suggest Gospel…as Every scenario is likely different. Im simply giving my own experience/encounters and suggestions. Nothing ive said pertains to All Fords….hence, your 04 Mustang experience doesnt really apply to a 13 Fiesta….as a 4C chip is totally different than and integrated 4D chip, transceivers, PCM, BCM etc. Sounds as tho U are contradicting yourself a…

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Doug Owner/Technician
California
Doug
 

I was just watching a Snap-on Video that mentioned that after 2010 that what would be needed would be for Ford or a licensed locksmith to program new keys. I was wondering if that is true on this 2014 Fiesta or would the Launch, (I actually have the ThinkCar pro now), do it ok?

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Marti Owner/Technician
Michigan
Marti
 

Typically, id say the statement is correct(after 2010) requiring Higher end Programming…..typically a locksmith or dealer…but not necessarily….as near anyone can purchase the required grammer and do it themselves…but have to make the decision if the ROI is worth it to them or not. I dont have either of the 2 U mention, but heard good things about Launch….being comparable, but different from…

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Doug Owner/Technician
California
Doug
 

Yes probably will have two there is one in the area. Thanks for your response Marti!

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Robert Technician
Michigan
Robert
   

Marti , Lets Suppose I bought a 2015 Ford at auction with PATS & it has NO keys/ spell check have to edit (repo) for $400 bucks the Gone in 60 seconds model…..Can I hand shake this thing back to life purchasing 2 brand new unprogrammed keys with PATS Functions before a Tear # in the Key Off position using DLC & suppose its not a BCM RKE ….Wait ,now that I think about I have the…

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Marti Owner/Technician
Michigan
Marti
 

Obviously, not knowing any history on said Auction vehicle, one could likely Add 1 key to it and have it run,…no need to do AKL(adding 2keys back in) As always, Lots of variables w any vehicle and No History. Depending on a Keyed ignition or Push to Start vehicle, one could even use a Used key to obtain a running status. In most cases, if the vehicle has Active Alarm, it will Need to be…

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Doug Owner/Technician
California
Doug
   

Using are “used” key, meaning a previously programmed key to that vehicle? And after one clears all the keys in the system I find it a little odd that they require at least two keys to program to get the car to stay again. Is this similar to most other manufacturers? Also I mentioned to the customer that if he could get a key from Ford I could program it for him. Does anyone know if that is…

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Marti Owner/Technician
Michigan
Marti
 

My understanding on the use of USED keys(ie Transponder chips) is that they Can be Reused for the Same and/or different cars. However, the Blade is unlikely to fit most any other car…that said, the Chip needs to be Harvested and placed into a Shell key…then Cut to said cars keyway. Long ago, i had some issues trying to Reuse a Used chip…no luck….since then, i have not tried again. I simply use…

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Jesse Engineer
Missouri
Jesse
 

Pertaining to reusing keys. On Chrysler products, 2005 and before you could program remotes to any car multiple times. I've done it a lot. But after that, especially the non-key blade remotes/keys, they are locked to the first car programmed to. So just getting a used one and reprogramming it to another car won't work. You CAN have them reset or might be able to reset then yourself with the…

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Thanks
Doug Owner/Technician
California
Doug
 

Thank you Marti, yes if $250 is way too much!

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Doug Owner/Technician
California
Doug Update
 

So I'm at the vehicle and I get the code B10D7:94. I have done the pinpoint B test on Alldata where I clear the codes, turn the ignition off turned it back on, wait for 10 seconds and the same code comes up again. It told me that the transceiver isn't reading the key. On the Data stream it says the Master key isn't active and I assume because the transceiver isn't working. At this point I am…

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Jeff Owner/Technician
Arizona
Jeff
   

You are, but replace the key as well. If the old key works, they now have two - which they will absolutely need at some point in the future for either and additional repair or a similar failure. If the old key does not work, I'd sell them a second for the above reason.

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Marti Owner/Technician
Michigan
Marti
 

Ford will likely have No Way of Testing the chip. I wouldnt waste your time to be given a blank stare…..? Even with a Chip Reader/Cloner, it may read it, but doesnt mean that its good. A locksmith would typically check the Transceiver/antenna for signal output….if signal is received, attempt to program the old and/or new key. Having a way to program keys, read them, and have plenty of stock…

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Doug Owner/Technician
California
Doug Resolution
 

Scratch that last post. I took apart the Fob and found a hole and asked the customer and he said yes this piece came out when I was changing the battery… put the piece in and it started up LOL. He's very grateful and so am I... $$$ later. He's going to get another key and I'll program it. Thanks again guys! Be safe and well

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Marti Owner/Technician
Michigan
Marti
 

Hence the importance of having a chip Reader/Cloner. Would have been a 5 sec diagnosis had U used one.

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Jeff Owner/Technician
Arizona
Jeff
 

Not at all. A chip reader cloner will, at best, tell you what the chip says - not whether it says it in a way that the IMMO Rx/Rx recognizes. I always stick bad keys in the cloner to see what's up. More than 50% of the time a bad key will read correctly.

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Marti Owner/Technician
Michigan
Marti
 

My last post is 100% Accurate!….a Reader/Cloner would have indeed Diagnosed the OPs problem in 5 seconds…..as it would Not have given a reading or detected a chip…..hence a bad key At no time did i say it Solves All problems or diagnoses every scenario. The OP clearly has a lack on knowledge in this area, hence reaching out for Help….we have all been there. Speaking out with ideas he is…

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Jeff Owner/Technician
Arizona
Jeff
 

Reader/Cloner would have indeed Diagnosed the OPs problem in 5 seconds…..as it would Not have given a reading or detected a chip…..hence a bad key So would popping it apart and taking a look - like he did. No investment in gear required.

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Marti Owner/Technician
Michigan
Marti
 

Keep in mind the OP likely has/had No idea what he was looking for….referring to a chip. Not to mention, that this is most likely an Aftermarket key and external Chip,….as to my knowledge, RHKs of this era all use an Integrated chip…and nothing to “fall out”…..and the RHKs are all Glued, requiring it to be destroyed inn order to Open it up. So then, had it been an OE RHK, there is No 'Popping…

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Jesse Engineer
Missouri
Jesse
 

Rule #1 of fixing anything broken: Ask what happened before it broke/quit working. 90% of the time that is related to the problem or is the problem.

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Jeff Owner/Technician
Arizona
Jeff
 

Most excellent! A cloner/reader would have caught that! I had a customer with a Yukon no-start who insisted they changed nothing prior to the failure. The key looked perfect. I found the chip in their cupholder.

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Funny
Marti Owner/Technician
Michigan
Marti
 

Indeed, which is Why Seasoned techs Quiz the customer 1st. We've All had those customers….Great Learning Curve for the Next one that never wants to admit they touched it 1st….only to cost them More in the long run. Again, Why a Reader is Essential….as it would have informed U as well that the key was no good…..and saved Valuable time if trying to Scope Signals/Data lines…..even if U hadnt…

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