Engine misfire cyl 1 and cyl 5

Maurice Business Development Manager Geebung, Australia Posted   Latest   Edited  
Question
Driveability
Drivetrain
2005 Mazda Tribute S 3.0L (1) 4-spd
Misfire

Hi guys, this mazda has 2 cylinders that are totally misfiring at idle. It seems someone has already replaced plugs and cop's before coming to me. The car dealer brought me the injectors to test and clean and as they were ok I suggested he bring the vehicle to my shop for proper diagnosing, which he did. 

Spark good, so carried out a compression test, and I would like so thoughts on what I have found. Cyl 1 has lower compression, but what I want advice on is what is causing the deeper vacuum in the exhaust stroke on Cyl 1?

The valve timing is considerably different on the craning capture and still slightly out compared to Cyl 1 and the other 2 cylinders on the running compression. 

Cyl 5 is also totally misfiring and yet the compression pattern compared to cyl 3 which is firing is not looking to be obviously all that different to cyl 5 which is not firing so I may have another reason for the misfire which I will further investigate. But for the moment there is some concerns with my captured patterns and I would value some thoughts on cyl 1 differences. 

Thank you 

+1
Saul Owner
Houston, Texas
Saul
 

2005 mazda Tribute and ALSO Ford Escape with a 3.0L are very comon that the pcm goes bad internally. I will bet your problem could be your computer. if all your test comes back normal. try to get some captures on your ignition coils and compare to the other known good ones. Also if the conclusion is pcm you most replace coils with OEM ones. Good luck.

+2 Ð Bounty Awarded
Chris Technical Support Specialist
Commack, New York
Chris
 

Check for your coil driver functionality as Saul stated. Monitor the switched ground at the coil or back probe at the convenient pcm connector

+1 Ð Bounty Awarded
Ray Diagnostician
North York, Ontario
Ray
   

The "deeper vacuum in the exhaust stroke on cyl 1" The vacuum pocket is not in the exhaust stroke. The vacuum pocket is the piston moving down during the expansion stroke, or the power stroke. When the exhaust valve opens, the vacuum pocket is opened to atmospheric pressure. You should do a cylinder leakage test in cyl 1 because there is a compression leak. Attach a rubber glove over the

+2 Ð Bounty Awarded
Mario Diagnostician
Weston, Florida
Mario
   

A deeper vacuum pocket is a result of cylinder leakage. The mass of air that is ingested is not the same as when the piston comes back down. Say you took in a certain amount of air. The intake valve closes and seals the cylinder then the piston rises, and compresses that air. A leaking valve will allow that compressed air to escape and when the piston descends again it results in a vacuum. A

+4 Ð Bounty Awarded
Albin Diagnostician
Leavenworth, Washington
Albin
 

For misfires, I always start with a relative compression test, while capturing intake manifold pulses. You might end up moving your pulse probe to the dipstick, and or the exhaust, but always start in the intake. Most times, your problem analysis will stop there.

+5 Ð Bounty Awarded
Rusty Owner/Technician
Oakham, Massachusetts
Rusty
 

1 & 5 are companion cylinders. If you have an intake valve leak on #1, the combustion in #1 can disturb the intake mixture in the plenum and affect other cylinders.

+1 Ð Bounty Awarded
Rudy Technician
Montebello, California
Rudy
 

As others have pointed out,Id be scoping the coil drivers. The failures are so common,these vehicles should come with spare PCM.....

0 Ð Bounty Awarded
Maurice Business Development Manager
Geebung, Australia
Maurice
 

Thank you everyone I will carryout more test as you have all recommend and repost these results. I appreciate the advice on the a leaking intake valve causing the deep vacuum in the exhaust pocket that makes sense, one never stops learning in this industry.

+1 Ð Bounty Awarded
Maurice Business Development Manager
Geebung, Australia
Maurice
 

It likes like the compression is all over the place, being a car yard vehicle he has declined for me to go any further. So at this present time the car is sitting and awaiting for the car dealer to pick this up. I suspect he will use a back yarder who has a lower labour rate to repair the engine or he may simply action off the car and cut his losses. My thoughts would be, has this had a timing

0 Ð Bounty Awarded
Albin Diagnostician
Leavenworth, Washington
Albin
 

by just looking at your relative compression trace, I see one cam is out of time, in relationship to the other cam.

+1 Ð Bounty Awarded
Maurice Business Development Manager
Geebung, Australia
Maurice
 

Albin you have made me look more closely and I think you are right although I am concerned about cyl 2 as it is on the same bank as cyl 4 and 6 and it is definitely lower in comp. all of bank 1 is low and the craning comp to running should represent half but they are all very high when running. I can not easily get to the bank 1 as the manifold is covering the plugs, therefore the reason I have

+1 Ð Bounty Awarded
Maurice Business Development Manager
Geebung, Australia
Maurice
 

Hi all Albin has made me rethink and learn more as to the possible reason I have such a notable low and uneven relative compression reading on this vehicle. All the low cylinders (except cyl 4) is on the one bank (B1) which is characteristic to a cam timing problem on one bank. Also adding to this is the fact all my running compressions are very high and are much higher then the expected 50%

0 Ð Bounty Awarded
Albin Diagnostician
Leavenworth, Washington
Albin
 

many times our testing procedures will not find problems, but will find good things, which rule out possibilities. In your case, the capture shows low compression on one bank, which is indicative of a cam timing problem. Now, a relative compression test does not verify compression, only how one cylinder is relative to another cylinder, or in your case, one bank is relative to the other. Now…

+1 Ð Bounty Awarded
Maurice Business Development Manager
Geebung, Australia
Maurice
 

Thanks Albin, I know the dipstick pressure is very messy and not right, but I would value your interpretation on this, thank you

0 Ð Bounty Awarded