Tipping point of guided testing

Bill Technician Rosetown, Saskatchewan Posted   Latest  

I like to revisit the idea of technology taking over my job periodically. I feel we will be seeing some pretty accurate and fast programs coming out in the near future to hold my hand. I can imagine all types of different ways that new vehicles can improve and stack self diagnostics. Testing that goes well beyond what everyone but the absolute genius level 1 in a million techs could do so efficiently. I could also imagine retroactive aftermarket tech for vehicles by making an all in one scope, guided diagnostics tool that only requires a button press to begin testing and guides the "user" along. It has already started and the technology is weak now, but I see the potential of this tech to change the industry.

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Agree
Anthony Technical Support Specialist
Kirkwood, Pennsylvania
Anthony Default
 

Hi Bill: I'd love to be able to tell you that your wrong. Alas, I can't. Collectively, we have proven the need for it. At the present time, the only thing "we" have going for us is that AI isn't far enough along, yet. You can think back a bit (a blast from the past for Marty) to the 1981 (?) Caddys with on-board diagnostics. While it was OBD-I, they didn't take it to where we are today for…

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Funny
Robert Mobile Technician
Grand Rapids, Michigan
Robert Default
 

Anthony! All I can say is (X2) on your statement! It is coming and it will be a wave!!! Look at the collision shops struggling for resources!!!

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Bill Technician
Rosetown, Saskatchewan
Bill Default
 

Anthony, I don't think on board AI is needed in many cases. Many tests could just gather data and run calculations to conclude a diagnosis within a program. There is no reason the vehicle would "need" extremely sophosticated AI/processing. Most current day vehicles have enough data that can be processed into a diagnosis. If the vehicle doesn't have the technology, and the technology is a bit…

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Gail Technician
Garner, North Carolina
Gail Default
 

Can it diagnose a bent pin in a connector? A harness that has been pinched or rubbed thru? Find the post here about the weird Honda throttle issue. (spoiler---brake light bulb) I do agree it's going to be a necessary evil because we just don't have enough highly skilled techs to handle the work. It's going to get worse REALLY fast as us OK Boomer techs retire.

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Bill Technician
Rosetown, Saskatchewan
Bill Default
   

That's right Gail, I believe they could get highly accurate with tweaks in the electrical architecture of the vehicle combined with a central statistical database, and as a hail Mary communication to remote diagnostics (Not a human interface). Retroactive to your example... No. In my opinion there is a pile left on the table right now that "could" be done by the aftermarket.

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Martin Instructor
Burnaby, British Columbia
Martin Default
 

Exactly Gail. Therein lies an obvious issue, where SI and published diagnostics are designed and engineered to address concerns with a vehicle that was assembled correctly and was functioning correctly at one time. There are many instances where passive non-intrusive systems and circuit testing is performed when the vehicle on-board systems and scan tool assesses conditions, then displays…

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Anthony Technical Support Specialist
Kirkwood, Pennsylvania
Anthony Default
 

Hi Bill: Warning: This is a bit in length. You could be correct. Then again.... In attempting to avoid appearing like a blithering idiot, what is written below should be looked at as a generality - conceptual in nature, if you will. (I don't want to give guys like Randy, Paul B, Bob G, etc. an easy layup to bitch-slap me. Not that it could stop them but I don't want them to have a…

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Interesting
Martin Instructor
Burnaby, British Columbia
Martin Default
 

Attaboy Guido! BTW, OTA updates have been restricted and limited to date in Global "A" GM vehicles for which OTA was not really engineered. OTA implementation, delivery and installation times will vastly improve with Global "B" (or the preferred mouthful of "Next- Generation Digital Vehicle Platform), on which OTA updates romp through at relative warp speed.

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Bill Technician
Rosetown, Saskatchewan
Bill Default
 

Nice Guido, Appreciate the input.

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Martin Instructor
Burnaby, British Columbia
Martin Default
 

Exactly Bill. Much of what is necessary to streamline diagnostics, is already contained within the vehicle software and the diagnostic tool and information systems. E.G. GM GDS 2 already identifies the module that flags a DTC, provides a pretty decent description and also identifies conditions such as short to ground, open/high resistance or short to voltage conditions. Of course, DTCs only flag…

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Bill Technician
Rosetown, Saskatchewan
Bill Default
 

I mostly agree Martin, I could see a relationship between the vehicle and an other remote AI entity acting as master/slave in rare instances. I could see the vehicles constantly feeding information into another entity via "some" type of communication. I think that would be the first way it would become feasible.

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Martin Instructor
Burnaby, British Columbia
Martin Default
 

Exactly Bill. Its "baby steps" one little hurdle at a time until what we might foresee becomes feasible, which in the simplest of terms has to translate into cost affordability and reliable performance. Demonstrating reduced diagnostic costs, absolutely needs to be one end result achieved from investing huge dollars to create diagnostic technoligies. It's just a matter of time and money…

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Martin Instructor
Burnaby, British Columbia
Martin Default
 

Hi Bill. I omitted to mention GM "Proactive Alerts" which is predictive diagnostics that owners have been able to sign up for through Onstar on some models since 2015. It is integrated into SI and GDS 2. onstar​.​com/us/en/articles…;

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Anthony Technical Support Specialist
Kirkwood, Pennsylvania
Anthony Default
 

Hi Marty: Recurring revenue and no liability, what's not to like? If an OTA goes egg-shaped, shit to be the Onstar consumer. onstar​.​com/us/en/user_ter… The link below may resolve for your post. onstar​.​com/us/en/articles… Guido

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Martin Instructor
Burnaby, British Columbia
Martin Default
 

Hi Guido. The one thing that appears to have disappeared from proactive alerts for at least some models, was fuel pump related, although I do recall it still being listed on maybe a 2018 Cruze. Perhaps too many impending fuel pump failures were predicted, I don't know. We also noticed that fuel pump trim changed in GDS 2 diagnostics, with the ability to control fuel pump trim being removed. I…

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Anthony Technical Support Specialist
Kirkwood, Pennsylvania
Anthony Default
 

Hi Marty: The removal of trim control is interesting. I'm sure that there will be an ever changing list of items. While I have no desire to play 3 card Monte (Onstar's Terms & Conditions), I'm sure that GM (and the other OEMs) will make a killing with this type of "product". While it may be smoke and mirrors as far as real value to me, your reasoning for using it as an example is well…

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Glen Owner/Technician
Arthur, Illinois
Glen Default
 

Martin, I like to start by saying thanks for all the info you post . I am way more familiar with Ford and they have had what I would call integrated diagnostics for years..eg, the DTC's are pulled when logged into SI, OASIS is ran(common/known problem data base) then the PPT are linked which includes a place to enter test results and all bi directional commends needed to perform a test are…

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Martin Instructor
Burnaby, British Columbia
Martin Default
 

Thanks Glen. You hit the "nail on the head" with networking. While I was still working at the GM dealership, our most valued customers base for parts were the local independent repair facilities. We knew and visited with most of the technicians from attending non-manufacturer training courses alongside them and crossing paths during our work. Providing support for those who purchased from the…

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Eric Instructor
San Luis Obispo, California
Eric Default
 

I think the auto repair industry has been struggling with competency issues for decades. Auto repair issues have topped the list of consumer complaints for as long as they have been tracked, and satisfaction ratings are a driving force in the industry. Training opportunities are more plentiful than ever, but I believe the level and acceleration of technology is outpacing the ability to train a…

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Anthony Technical Support Specialist
Kirkwood, Pennsylvania
Anthony Default
 

Hi Eric: Using the link you posted over-simplifies your position. The service being marketed is available in China. It is much easier to do something like this when initially setting up a distribution chain. Daimler would lose big-time attempting to roll out something similar in the US. I'm not an attorney but I immediately thought of a few things that they would be nailed for. For a hint, find…

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Eric Instructor
San Luis Obispo, California
Eric Default
 

Its in the US. I just liked the Chinese link better.

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Anthony Technical Support Specialist
Kirkwood, Pennsylvania
Anthony Default
 

Hi Eric: If you can point me to where I can see this, I'd appreciate it. TIA, Guido

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Eric Instructor
San Luis Obispo, California
Eric Default
 

Here is BMW's version of this concept. Certainly allows for a "guided" usage. My BMW tech colleagues showed me one today but also tell me they haven't needed it yet. It will certainly not replace the need for competent technicians, but the technology could be expanded into many levels. press​.​bmwgroup​.​com/usa/article/de…

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Anthony Technical Support Specialist
Kirkwood, Pennsylvania
Anthony Default
 

Hi Eric: With all due respect, this bears no resemblance whatsoever to the M-B program in China. You had mentioned the M-B program is available here. I asked where I could see this. To the best of my knowledge, the M-B program is available in the EU and Switzerland to Xentry shops. I saw nothing to indicate that it is available in the NAFTA…

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Bill Technician
Rosetown, Saskatchewan
Bill Default
   

Thank you Eric, In my opinion remote diagnosis, even by the highly trained factory employed tech, is too inefficient. Lets put field service engineers into that category as well. Life moves at light speed for consumers. Big business may be able to leverage new technology to decrease down time, increase accuracy of repairs, and increase customer satisfaction. They may more quickly move to things…

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