Alternator not charging

Jay Owner/Technician Campbellcroft, Ontario Posted   Latest   Edited  
Question
Driveability
2013 Ford Focus ST 2.0L (9) 6-spd (MMT6)
Had A Code P026b-00
Batt Light On
Not Charging
Correction-Had A Code P065b Now Has U012d

Customer ran the vehicle battery down. Towed in. (He kept driving after the Batt light came on.

We had replaced the battery Dec-2017 for other reasons, no problem since then. battery charged up normally & starts the vehicle fine.

The code was for an alternator not charging.

We looked at 2011 (no turbo) and 2012 (with turbo) for wiring schematics.

The 2011 had 3 wires for alternator control. The 2012 only had 1 wire for alternator control.

This 2013 has 3 wires for alternator control.

The vehicle has over 300,000-km and the customer (good guy and not unreasonable, he works at a car plant) and I discussed the ;limited information currently available. We decided to replace the alternator and once it is corrected, we would double check the battery.

Full 12-V on the output stud.

No voltage on the control pins #1 & #3.

Control pin #2 (purple as in the 2 schematics available) has about 8-volts which would be normal for the LIN communication line.

The active grill shutters havn't worked in years but since it is connected on the purple com line, we disconnected that. (code for the active grill shutters has been in the vehicle for several years with no symptoms). One of the 2 vehicles we did find information for said to disconnect the AGS and recheck. No dice.

We decided to take a shot at an alternator (ya, i know) since it's over 6 years old with lots of miles.

Now we get a U026D (??) I think. I'm at home right now.

The first code was for the alternator not charging and now we have a different communication code but the first code hasn't reappeared, and it's still not charging and the BATT light comes on.

the COM code does NOT put the MIL light on but can be found in "pending" but after several starts, it doesn't mature.

Before we go any farther i would like to verify the wiring to the 3 wires at the alternator plug, and the ECM.

Schematics and pin-outs for the ECM would be very helpful. The "battery sensing module" may or may not be in this vehicle and its location would be helpful when tracing the wiring.

Could anybody share the schematics & pin-outs please-?

Thanks in advance.

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Michael Manager
Marysville, Washington
Michael Default
   

Looking at wiring diagrams for that vehicle is see only 1 control wire going to alternator from PCM via LIN bus. Could I get the full VIN for the vehicle? I also see it could have a 3 terminal pin on alternator, but only have 1 wire going to it. I show no 3 wire control for a vehicle of that year. I also do not see a definition for the P026B-00 code for that vehicle.

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Jay Owner/Technician
Campbellcroft, Ontario
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Thanks for the reply Michael. There are definately 3 wires at the connector. Found my quick notes. Full VIN is 1FADP3L95DL165464 I didn't have my notes this morning, sorry for the confusion the code it came in with was P065B There is about 8-volts on the centre purple wire no voltage on the outer 2 wires but they are there. The new code with the rebuilt alternator in place is U012D.

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Michael Manager
Marysville, Washington
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My info says that either the alternator is bad or the LIN bus has an open circuit. since you have 8 volts on the LIN line, I would suspect a bad alternator. I personally only use Denso or Bosch rebuilds because the others I frequently find myself doing a second time for free. I have no idea what the other 2 wires in the alt plug are for and I see absolutely nothing in any wiring diagram for…

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Jay Owner/Technician
Campbellcroft, Ontario
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Thanks michael I'm agreeing with you. The alternator itself isn't behaving the way it should. Thanks to your input and all the other input from the other guys I'm going to double check a few things Monday morning but as i said to the customer, it's very well possible that his original alternator was at fault and the replacement alternator is sub-standard. When i have a choice the Denso stuff…

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Michael Manager
Marysville, Washington
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I see nothing that says the alt will go full field if disconnected or rpm raise. The PCM tells the alt what to do via the LIN bus input. The diag tree for the 2 codes you have both pretty much say replace the alt after you check all your powers, grounds, voltage drops, etc. I assume you have already covered your basics so I really think you just got a bad one. If it was me, I'd pop another one I…

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Jay Owner/Technician
Campbellcroft, Ontario
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Well, that's a bit contrary to what George & Hollis have indicated but that's not to say you're wrong either. Thank you for looking. if it wasn't for the fact that it's very tight and the A/C compressor has to be dropped down AND the engine has to be lowered about 4 inches to get it out i would just pop another one in place before going too crazy with pinouts and such. The scanner did…

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Mark Mechanic
Georgetown Township, Michigan
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Ford connector view says Pins 1 & 3 are NOT used. But where do these wires go? One foot into the wire harness and just end? They probably put wires in those 2 to make the weather proof seal weather proof, otherwise you would have two holes going into connection. Hmmm. And I agree with all others that it is most likely a "bad" alternator, based on info.

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Jj Technician
Quincy, Massachusetts
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Looks like there should only be the LIN wire for the regulator. Also I have no luck with that U026D code. Getting a scope on that LIN wire would be helpful I think.

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Jay Owner/Technician
Campbellcroft, Ontario
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Thanks for the reply. Sorry, found my notes after i posted Original code was P065B There are definately three wires in the connector. the centre purple wire has about 8-volts which seems normal for a COM line. With the rebuilt alternator in place we get a U012D, lost comm. That's why we disconnected the active grill shutter (it was mentioned in either the 2011 or the 2012 information we had…

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Jj Technician
Quincy, Massachusetts
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Does the purple wire have 8v with the alternator plugged in? May also want to disconnect ECM, AGS and alternator all together and make sure there's nothing on that wire with the circuit completely disconnected.

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Jay Owner/Technician
Campbellcroft, Ontario
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The 8-V was at the alternator connector and not plugged into the alternator. We unplugged the AGS later but that made no difference. I was hoping for a schematic so I could make sure nothing else is plugged into that circuit and pin outs so i could verify that circuit back at the ECM. There's more than one or two there...LOL

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Jay Owner/Technician
Campbellcroft, Ontario
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I just saw and figured out how to download the attachments. Thank You-!!!

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Jj Technician
Quincy, Massachusetts
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No problem. You may want to plug the alternator back in and check your LIN voltage at the AGS connector, that "new" regulator may be pulling the LIN high or low. These situations are rough. I had a 2016 Kia Sorento recently with the same problem. Alternator is PWM controlled on that, but it still threw me for a loop. Scoped the FR signal on the original alternator, no good. Replaced alternator…

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George Owner/Technician
Mobile, Alabama
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My info says the regulator is a (D-L-D) Regulator plug configuration and only uses the (L) terminal (Center Terminal) for Lin control The other 2 wires are not used Alternator is stator energized so with reg plug disconnected the alternator should go into default mode. If not clutch pulley may be slipping,bad wiring from output post to battery,bad Lin wire signal or just a bad alternator.

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Jay Owner/Technician
Campbellcroft, Ontario
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Thanks George The 3 wires are in the connector. The original code was P065B. The centre purple wire has about 8-volts on it which seems normal for a LIN circuit. The other two wires have no voltage at all. We tried the original alternator unplugged and ran the RPM up over 2000 as one of the other vehicles mentioned (said it should self energize but it didn't) When the rebuilt alternator was…

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George Owner/Technician
Mobile, Alabama
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Sounds like the rebuilt alternator is bad....It should energize if alternator ground & output wire has no resistance. Just sub a jumper wire from alternator case to battery NEG then from battery POS to alt​.​stud​.​​.​Since it want charge and a voltage drop would be useless.

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Jay Owner/Technician
Campbellcroft, Ontario
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The replacement alternator could very well be bad, no doubt. Even manufacturer rebuilts are suspect these days as they sub out that work to other companies. When i was reading up on the 2011 & 2012 model years it said that the alternator "COULD" start to self energize but it wasn't definitive about that. At this point it could be, Alternator, ECM, or wiring. I don't call a lot of ECMs…

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Mark Mechanic
Georgetown Township, Michigan
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Is this the 2.0L ecoboost? If so, my schematic only shows middle wire (VT-BN) being used (middle pin #2) for LIN to PCM on connector C138IE, pin 41. Also splices to the mentioned GSA thru BJB 11-1 (pin 14 in), but you state that is disconnected. HS CAN pins for control used are on C1381B, Pin 41 (WH) (HS CAN-) and Pin 54 (BL-WH) (HS CAN+). JC has connector C1381B pin out shown above.

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Jay Owner/Technician
Campbellcroft, Ontario
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Thanks for the reply Mark all 3 connector slots have wires in them. The centre purple wire has about 8-volts which seems normal for a comm line. the outer two have no voltage. If it wasn't connected to the ECM from C1381E pin 41, and the Grill shutter is disconnected (as mentioned in either the 2011 or the 2012) where could the 8-volts come from-? The only two Engine control U codes we come up…

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Mark Mechanic
Georgetown Township, Michigan
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Based on the U012D Code which is lost comm with generator, I think you might have a high speed CAN issue with one of the other modules attached to it. Maybe they were not "false" codes in the past after all. I don't excel in this area so maybe others can pipe in if they agree. I have tried disconnecting one module at a time on HS CAN BUS and see if my problem goes away. Also, you mentioned…

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Jay Owner/Technician
Campbellcroft, Ontario
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No, the battery was replaced a few years ago. We never had a U012D before this and it only set the U012D AFTER the replacement alternator went in yesterday. Most of the other "U" codes in the past were for dumb-ass things like the microsoft driven infotainment and cell phone linking sort of thing. That's why i was asking for a schematic for the 2013 model year. The connector HAS 3 wires in it…

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Gary Technical Support Specialist
Rochester, New York
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Is it possible for the wires to be included in the harness but never terminate anywher?

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Mark Mechanic
Georgetown Township, Michigan
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That is my thought Gary. Wires are just used to fill the wire hole to make the weather proof connector actually weather proof.

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Lorenzo Diagnostician
Collinsville, Oklahoma
Lorenzo Default
 

Bad, corroded or dirty ground connection from battery to chassis or chassis to engine.

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Mark Mechanic
Georgetown Township, Michigan
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that is a choice in the flow chart for code U012D, depending upon....

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Jay Owner/Technician
Campbellcroft, Ontario
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Ha ha. I like the way the manufacturers use "generic" references...."if equipped"....They have to know, otherwise they couldn't have built the damned thing in the first place.

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Hollis Technician
Boulder, Colorado
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Sounds like you've done your due-diligence, Rebuilt Alternator ? Apple's to oranges, but reman/rebuilt alts on ECM/PCM controlled charging systems on Subaru's just don't work. The electronics don't speak the same language. I had some articles squirreled away on the subject and can't find them. I'll keep looking. If I missed something in your post that indicates otherwise, sorry.

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Jay Owner/Technician
Campbellcroft, Ontario
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Hello Hollis. Yep. Sure could be the reman alternator. I ran into non-OE regulator issues back in the 70's, and again in the 90's, more than once. If however, the regulator ECM control line is unplugged, the 2011 or the 2012 said that it "COULD" self energize over 2000-rpm but it didn't say it WOULD self energize. I'll NEVER use another NAPA alternator. Nothing but grief from them over that…

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Hollis Technician
Boulder, Colorado
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Here's a little tidbit from a Pico discussion on Ford Smart Charging Systems. It goes on for 3 pages. "Certainly from experience, Ford's and smart charge systems don't seem to like any form of aftermarket alternator, and anything that is replaced that is not genuine, i have heard of issues showing up though the charging system." picoauto​.​com/support/topic1… I've only run into…

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Jay Owner/Technician
Campbellcroft, Ontario
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Thanks Hollis. My Dad was an electrical engineer so i was raised being exposed to this sort of thing. I'm no engineer and many times i'm glad of that-!! My mentor was the guy the local dealers would send their "problem" electronics to so i had a very good teacher. He used to say "when you run into trouble, go back to basics". That's why further testing and inspection is in order BEFORE I…

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Hollis Technician
Boulder, Colorado
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Glad to try and help. I learn a lot from discussions like this even though it's not Subaru related, sometimes, Systems is Systems :O) Here's one last tidbit that may shed some light from the rebuilt/reman side of the industry and why we end up holding the bag. Sometimes, they don't know or quality control drops the ball. "This document explains the differences between two look-alike Delco…

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Jay Owner/Technician
Campbellcroft, Ontario
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Oh Yea. Just because something LOOKS the same doesn't mean it IS the same. Years ago there was aFford plant 20 minutes south of me in Brampton. AMC was also in Brampton. When I moved near Oshawa, GM was huge. The number of parts people would 'show up" with was incredible. Got to the point where we told 'em to put it on themselves and let us know how they made out. More often than not they…

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Anthony Technical Support Specialist
Kirkwood, Pennsylvania
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Hi Jay: Perhaps I missed it but I didn't see any mention of checking these. focusfanatics​.​com/forum/attachme…​.​jpg I spent a few minutes this morning and apparently these 2 items have had their share of issues. In Chrysler-speak, you may say that they were not robust. Here's a better picture/video. autopartscheaper​.​com/products/new-o… BTW don't run…

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Jay Owner/Technician
Campbellcroft, Ontario
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Thanks Guido. I'm guessing that's the Battery monitor sensor-?? Without 2013 information i am not sure the vehicle is equipped with it as the 2011 information did show one but not the 2012 information. I would double check the part number anyway and it's funny how we KNOW they've had issues with parts design and reliability when the part numbers end in "AA", then "AB", then "AC", then…

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Hollis Technician
Boulder, Colorado
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Good point ! If the control side is getting erroneous info from the current sensor, all bets are off. On some Subaru's there is ReFlash for charging system logic and current sensor replacement. I ran across an issue recently that the new and improved current sensor was the wrong part, mislabeled, it had a GM, yes, GM logo and part number. I spoke with my local Subaru parts rep. he…

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Anthony Technical Support Specialist
Kirkwood, Pennsylvania
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Hi Hollis: I'm glad that you brought up flashing. I forgot to mention checking for an aftermarket calibration. Apparently, The Fast & Furious crowd likes the Focus ST. Guido

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Jay Owner/Technician
Campbellcroft, Ontario
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There very well could be some sort of reflash but one would think after 6 years and 300,000-km a software calibration would have shown up long before this. That would explain the IP turning the light on and the code set, but it still doesn't self excite and go to default charging voltage with the LIN wire disconnected.

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Anthony Technical Support Specialist
Kirkwood, Pennsylvania
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Hi Jay: My caution wasn't on an OEM reflash, per se. It was on an aftermarket tuning. I consider them like landmines. When they're yours, you usually know where they are. When you leave, others don't. Turn into real Dirty Harry moments far too often. The way that I read the circuit guidance, the alternator will not charge if the battery sensor circuit is open. Also, don't be too focused (no…

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Jay Owner/Technician
Campbellcroft, Ontario
Jay Default
 

Hi Guido. I getcha on the reflash for the "hot rod' but I'm 99.9% sure he hasn't done that silly a thing. I could see the battery monitor sensor in the 2011 (with 3 wires) but not in the schematic for the 2012 (1 wire) and since there are 3 wires in the connector & I didn't have a 2013 schematic, I was wondering if they were actually used. Apparently not according to George. It could be…

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Anthony Technical Support Specialist
Kirkwood, Pennsylvania
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Hi Jay: According to this, it is used. Check out the application listing. Of course, I would verify with Ford. autopartscheaper​.​com/products/new-o… I won't get into the Aftermarket vs. OEM parts quality. I find it hard to believe, though, that either will pay to install an unneeded part in a manufactured component. HTH, Guido

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Mark Mechanic
Georgetown Township, Michigan
Mark Default
   

This is a redundant post, but the Ford OE Repair Manual claims that you need a scan tool to reset battery system settings anytime you replace a battery, a current sensor, etc. This allows the PCM to recalculate charging thru the LIN. Can anyone else agree with this statement?

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Anthony Technical Support Specialist
Kirkwood, Pennsylvania
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Hi Mark: I agree with the statement. This is a function in the IDS. It also needs to be done with a BCM is replaced. Guido

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Mark Mechanic
Georgetown Township, Michigan
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Thanks Anthony! Whatever happened to the good old days of simple electronics? Cars are getting too smart for themselves, and customers are going to be in shell shock with repair bill costs on simple parts replacements in the future.

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George Owner/Technician
Mobile, Alabama
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According to other info it can also be reset by sitting for 8 hours with no current interruption ...Don't even open the doors I have rebuilt many of these lin controlled alternators​.​Not much on car R&R but my test bench does not have a current sensor for testing these type alternators .So one might disconnect the sensor which would eliminates the load shed circuity and have no…

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Mark Mechanic
Georgetown Township, Michigan
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I had read this also George in OEM Repair Manual (it said 6 hours of no current change and under 200ma draw), but if I understand correctly, this method would not tell the PCM the new age of the battery. I do not know if there is a place to reset battery age, and I don't know this to be a fact. I would copy that page of the manual, but that is on my other laptop. Supposedly this is also factored…

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Jay Owner/Technician
Campbellcroft, Ontario
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Thanks George it'll have all weekend to sit undisturbed so Monday morning will tell. I can't think of any way to test for residual magnetism in the rotor in the vehicle. There is a fuse that would disconnect the battery monitor sensor so I will check it with that circuit "open". Interesting, and i understand, when you say that you've never seen a LIN controlled alternator NOT go into…

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George Owner/Technician
Mobile, Alabama
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Since the Lin type alternators will be around for many years you might want to look into a on vehicle tester.

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Hollis Technician
Boulder, Colorado
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That's a nifty gadget :O) waiglobal​.​com/tech-tips

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Jay Owner/Technician
Campbellcroft, Ontario
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I was looking through the data lists on the scan tool (SnapOn) and be damned if i could find any PID showing a battery or charging system voltage. You would think it would be in the engine data groupings somewhere. It could be in the Instrument Panel data list as the IP is responsible for turning the Battery warning light "on". At this point I'll be looking for a component similar to what Guido…

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Tommy Technician
Kennesaw, Georgia
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Have you checked voltage drop with the vehicle running from battery (+) post to alternator (+) post and the battery (-) post to alternator case. I had a focus a couple weeks ago with a charging issue and it had a 2.5 volt drop on the ground side. Was a bad ground from body to block.

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Jay Owner/Technician
Campbellcroft, Ontario
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Hi Tom. At present the ONLY thing not working on this is the alternator isn't doing a damned thing. No current flow = no voltage drop, but I'll double check that monday morning.

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Sean Technician
Cincinnati, Ohio
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I had a run on with a similar situation but it was a Hyundai, battery light on, alternator not charging. I noticed the battery was actually new, I found the positive cable wasn't seated correctly. It had 2 fuses that got powered on the cable the one fuse would send power to the battery sensor on the ground cable. Completing the circuit. Once I fully seated the cable, power was now present on the…

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Jay Owner/Technician
Campbellcroft, Ontario
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Thanks Sean. The schematic for the 2011 showed more than one fuse in the circuit that i didn't see in the 2012 schematic. We checked EVERY fuse in the vehicle in 3 locations. Every one was OK. The battery was changed a couple of years ago. According to some here, and mentioned in the 2012 information, it "could" or "should' self energize once RPM goes above 2000 and run at a default voltage…

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Sean Technician
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Then the only thing left is score the lin bus and verify 100 percent communication is happening if so the alternator has to be faulty. Keep us updated

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Jay Owner/Technician
Campbellcroft, Ontario
Jay Update
 

Hello everyone. First i would like to thank everyone for their inputs-!! The rebuilt alternator was the problem. It shouldn't have been but it was. I have had no problems with my suppliers product line for about 7 years but there is always a first time for everything The control LIN wire from the ECM was not shorted to power, nor was it shorted to ground and the Grill Shutter module also was…

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