2016 Tundra knocking noise on cold start

David Technician Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Posted   Latest   Edited  
Question
Propulsion
2016 Toyota Tundra Limited 5.7L (3UR-FE) 6-spd

I have a 2016 Tundra knocking noise on cold start happens About a minute after start up. The noise only last about a minute and goes away When car gets warms up. I seen other forums with a lot of people with same problem but no one seems to have a fix for it. Tore the engine apart but I don’t see anything Damage or scored. Thanks in advance. Any help would be appreciated.

Steps I performed Prior to tear down. 

  1. Oil change 0W-20 and OE filter
  2. Replaced water pump noise went away when I removed drive belt but car was warmed up that’s why it went away. Found play on water pump pulley and coolant corrosion on housing. While bleeding coolant system noise came back.
  3. Performed active test while symptom was happening disable cylinder 1 and 3 no change in noise. Let vehicle cool off and performed VVTI actuator active test on exhaust and intake on bank 1, while symptom was happening noise did not notice any change. Swapped bank 1 and bank 2 VVTI solenoids, cooled off vehicle noise was still present at cold start.
  4. Bored scoped engine cylinder‘s 1,3,5,and 7. Found excessive carbon, performed two cans of top engine clean. Bored scope cylinder 1 and most of the carbon has been cleaned off of piston. Let vehicle cool over night and boise was still present.
  5. Started to tear down bank 1 cylinder head.
  6. Performed inspection on valve lash adjuster assembly on bank one Cylinder head with SST: … valve lash adjuster) Check ball on valve lash adjuster operates ok.
  7. I’m going to be replacing left bank lifters and primary tensioner. Starting to reassemble the engine.
  8. Started the car in cold weather and the noise is gone! However, I’m Not sure if all the bank 1 lifters or primary bank 1 tensioner fixed the issue. At least the problem has been solved. 
+3
Bennett Technician
Garden City, Georgia
Bennett Default
 

I also have a 2016 with less than 50k miles. Mine does it too. So I’ll be following this thread.

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Nelson Mechanic
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Nelson Default
   

Did you check your oil pressure Check this youtube page. Its not for yor car but it may enliten the problem. Dont hurt to watch it. youtube​.​com/watch?v=uwhjld…

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David Technician
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
David Default
 

No I didn’t get a oil pressure reading.

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David Technician
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
David Default
 

This one has 59k miles. There’s a lot of people having the same issue too.

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Darrell Technician
Bowie, Maryland
Darrell Default
 

I would probably say see what oil pressure is like during cold start / almost sounds like one of the timing chain slippers are making noise. The oil filter element isn't collapsed is it?

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David Technician
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
David Default
 

I did Oil change with new filter before i started tearing it down and noise Was still there.

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Joseph Technician
Moon, Pennsylvania
Joseph Default
 

Does sound like chain slack. Since u went that far i would get both tensioners and new guides, chain and possibly all four cam phasers.

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Nathaniel Diagnostician
Ashton, Ontario
Nathaniel Default
 

Agree that it sounds like chain slack, but easy with the parts cannon. Phasers are pricey and there's likely nothing wrong with them. Guides and chains are pretty reasonable recommendations, but probably not strictly necessary either. My money is on chain tensioner mechanical fault on that right bank, most likely the primary but possibly the secondary. Either way, it'll be very interesting to…

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Bennett Technician
Garden City, Georgia
Bennett Default
 

Do they have a spec like measuring how far the tensioner is out to determine if chain stretch is out of spec? If mine gets worse, I’ll either see if Toyota will do something about it or tear down myself. But I’ve only heard mine a few times this winter.

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David Technician
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
David Default
 

I’ll check the manual to see if there is tensioner inspection.

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Nathaniel Diagnostician
Ashton, Ontario
Nathaniel Default
   

There are specs to measure chain stretch and guide wear. I don't believe there are specs for measuring tensioner plunger protrusion, likely because there are just too many variables for that measurement to mean much. Chain stretch, guide wear, sprocket wear, even cam and crank bearing wear, are all going to affect the measurement. A close visual inspection is about all you can do. And when in…

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Bennett Technician
Garden City, Georgia
Bennett Default
 

Nissan has you measure the length of the tensioner putrusion as how to tell if the chain is stretched too far. and I’ve had to do chains on nissans at 50k bc of this. That’s why I ask. Nissan uses that as a measurement.

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Marlin Technician
Estacada, Oregon
Marlin Default
 

I don't have an answer for you, but please, tag your post correctly! This is nothing close to an autonomous vehicle!

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David Technician
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
David Default
 

I was unclear what to tag it under. It’s my first post.

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Marlin Technician
Estacada, Oregon
Marlin Default
 

Tag it as what it is, nothing more. Tags are intended to support efficient searching for many years to come.

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Joseph Technician
Moon, Pennsylvania
Joseph Default
 

Guys asking for help, not criticism.

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Marlin Technician
Estacada, Oregon
Marlin Default
 

Inaccurate tags are more likely to deter help than they are to attract it.

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Helpful
Joseph Technician
Moon, Pennsylvania
Joseph Default
 

Jackasses like u think they know everything, but dont know shit. So u try to belittle people to ake yourself feel better. This is a help forum, and how are u helping this guy? Get off your high horse!!

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Unprofessional
Inappropriate
Scott Manager
Claremont, California
Scott Default
 

Hi Joseph, The author incorrectly chose the wrong topic for his post which created confusion. Marlin was letting the OP know this. We have since edited the post so that topic matches the actual subject. When communications are tagged appropriately everyone can communicate and manage their time more effectively. This is a professional platform and we expect each user to behave according to…

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Joseph Technician
Moon, Pennsylvania
Joseph Default
 

Got it. Thanks for getting involved Scott.

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Scott Manager
Claremont, California
Scott Default
 

Hi David, I updated topic for you by changing it from Autonomous Vehicles to Propulsion.

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David Technician
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
David Default
 

Thanks

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Pedro Owner/Technician
Cayey, Puerto Rico
Pedro Default
 

Check very carefully, the lifters!

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Victor Owner/Technician
Doral, Florida
Victor Default
 

Oil pressure should have been checked before teardown.

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Agree
Marlin Technician
Estacada, Oregon
Marlin Default
 

It probably should have, but what would it really prove? Nothing, I think. Consider the condition parameters in which the noise occurs.

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Victor Owner/Technician
Doral, Florida
Victor Default
 

I have cured many Toyota vehicles with such problems by putting transmission fluid in engine oil​.​Sludge seems to be a major problem with these vehicles​.​It appears that the buildup of sludge over time causes a delay in the passage of oil to the cylinder head during cold starts.

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David Technician
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
David Default
 

That didn’t come into mind at the time.

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David Technician
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
David Default
 

But if oil pressure was the issue, wouldn’t it cause both banks to knock? I used Chassis ears and only hear it coming from left bank towards cylinder head front.

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Jesse Owner
Roanoke, Virginia
Jesse Default
 

David, since 2007 the knocking noise has often times been associated with sticking/hanging VVT gears. Even at low mileage sometimes. Do you use xW20 engine oil and OE filters while confirming the metal tube is in the center of the filter to prevent compression?

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David Technician
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
David Default
 

Yeah I used 0W20 and OE filter

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Jesse Owner
Roanoke, Virginia
Jesse Default
 

Apologize, I missed that in OP. If you want to experiment and save the expense of I&E cam gears, then swap bank 1 and bank 2 VVT gears to note if noise changes banks. If you want to save labor not going in again (if noise moves) then place new OE gears and if noise is still there keep the used gears for future reuse. A further sub experiment would be to just replace the spring on the exhaust…

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David Technician
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
David Default
 

I’m also curious to what’s causing this noise. I’ll keep you updated.

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David Mobile Technician
Rimforest, California
David Default
 

David, is that ”carbon washout“ from oil in combustion chamber?

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David Technician
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
David Default
 

I used two cans of top engine cleaner prior to tear down.

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Tanner Instructor
Wellford, South Carolina
Tanner Default
 

I know this truck is apart already so maybe this can be tested on another one that is doing it. Disable fuel and crank the engine for 20-30 seconds with a charger on it to make sure it spins at full speed. Then re enable fuel and start and see if it does the same thing. The reason for doing this is to try to pump oil through everything prior to starting. If it still does it then i would assume…

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Helpful
Albert Owner/Technician
Towanda, Pennsylvania
Albert Default
   

I interested in seeing what is wrong with this. This is how most of us learn of new or weird symptoms.

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Stephen Technician
Gallatin, Tennessee
Stephen Default
 

Wen you listened with the chassis ears, did you happen to have a scope hooked up? What RPM is the engine running at during the “noise” videos?

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David Technician
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
David Default
 

No I did not have a scope Hooked up. It happens when you first cold start the car and the fan stop running after about 30 sec to a minute that’s when the noise kicks on And last about a minute Then goes away.

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Victor Owner/Technician
Doral, Florida
Victor Default
 

Does fan run on cold startup?

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David Technician
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
David Default
 

Yes, but after the fan stops than the noise comes on for about a minute Then goes away. I have also tried this with drive belt off and noise is still present.

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Gail Technician
Garner, North Carolina
Gail Default
 

May be piston slap.

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Victor Owner/Technician
Doral, Florida
Victor Default
 

Or carbon rap.

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David Technician
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
David Default
 

I performed two top engine cleaner and a lot of carbon has been cleaned off piston.

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Michael Diagnostician
Vineland, New Jersey
Michael Default
 

I was thinking the same thing .

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Stephen Technician
Gallatin, Tennessee
Stephen Default
 

So, the noise is not there before the fan stops?

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David Technician
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
David Default
 

Not when you first started after fan stops about a minute or so. Then the noise comes on for about a minute then it goes away.

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Victor Owner/Technician
Doral, Florida
Victor Default
 

Why is fan coming on while motor is cold?

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David Technician
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
David Default
 

It’s a clutch fan system

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Gail Technician
Garner, North Carolina
Gail Default
 

Exhaust manifold have any broken studs?

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David Technician
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
David Default
 

No broken studs

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Phil Technician
Tewksbury, Massachusetts
Phil Default
 

Almost sounds like a loose valve seat to me. It sound high pitched and "clinky". I don't hear a deeper lower end noise. Anyone else remember the Ford 1.9 liter motors that would drop a valve seat? I had one in my bay for a noise that sounds eerily similar to what I am hearing now in your video. I was trying to pinpoint the noise in the bay by just slightly revving the motor off idle by 100-200…

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Stephen Technician
Gallatin, Tennessee
Stephen Default
 

On the long video; I do hear a low end type knock noise. It starts a little before the clacking noise and intensifies as the clacking gets louder. The engine kind of sounds like it labors at the height of it. It’s almost an old mechanical injection diesel at idle sound when it labors. I wrote a post about that last night but I can’t find it now so, i don’t know where if anywhere, that I sent it.

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Scott Owner
Moreno Valley, California
Scott Default
 

Hi David, You work at a Toyota dealer, right? What does Toyota say about this? Do they have a TAC - Technical Assistance Center? Is this under warranty still? Who's paying for repairs on this vehicle? If this is CP - Customer Pay, were they informed of the charges for exploratory surgery prior to a tear down? Sorry if I don't have an answer to what's causing this noise.

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David Technician
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
David Default
 

Yes, technical assistance told me most likely primary tensioner but could also be secondary tensioner. It’s still under warranty.

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Jesse Owner
Roanoke, Virginia
Jesse Default
 

Have you noticed wear from flopping tensioners? To aluminum surrounding the timing set, to the guides, or even to the inmost bore of the tensioner pistons. If no witness marks or excessive wear to components I doubt the tensioners are excessively oscillating. Look at the wear pattern of the Ford Triton engines to learn the similarities of failure. I still suspect the gears but I doubt Toy will…

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David Technician
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
David Default
   

I inspected the timing tensioner and chain guide today. The tensioner has A good tension when pushing in and out. The chain guides I see only normal wear even on both guides.

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Jesse Owner
Roanoke, Virginia
Jesse Default
 

And the cam towers were sealed not leaking off oil pressure. Not much left but the actuators huh? I suppose you are getting resistance from corporate about replacing the cam gears. One possible bench test that I guess you could try, never heard of anyone trying it before, is to remove the spring from the exhaust VVT gear and measuring the compression force like you would do a valve spring and…

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Jesse Owner
Roanoke, Virginia
Jesse Default
 

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Jesse Owner
Roanoke, Virginia
Jesse Default
 

With that cam gear in the locked position, will it unlock when you blow air into the oil hole?

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Randy Technical Support Specialist
Conroe, Texas
Randy Default
 

Once it's back together insure a/c is off when starting vehicle. Just for SAG. Have seen a couple with issues like this, and the real issue was the a/c compressor would come on at start up, and the compressor was the problem.

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David Technician
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
David Resolution
 

Started the car in cold weather and the noise is gone! However, I’m Not sure if all the bank 1 lifters or primary bank 1 tensioner fixed the issue. At least the problem has been solved.

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