06 Ford 6.0L Powerstroke start and stall
Hello to all,
I’m working on an 06 6.0L that will intermittently start and stall either cold or hot. It takes a few times of cranking and stalling until it will continue running. Sometimes (more rarely) the engine will suddenly die while idling but will always restart. Another related symptom which I have not been able to fully duplicate is when decelerating the engine will suddenly die and then usually restart after extended cranking. The customer states that it will start quicker by holding throttle wide open. I was able to duplicate it just a little when I was driving about 20 mph and let off the accelerator to slow down … it started dying and then caught itself.
Previous repairs included IPR valve and ICP sensor, STC fitting, oil cooler replacement, EGR cooler delete, oil change with Motorcraft filter, and injectors 3 and 5. This truck had these same symptoms before any of these repairs but they were not happening as often as they are now.
The codes listed below is what I pulled from the PCM when truck arrived.
P0264 - Cylinder #2 Injector Circuit Low
P0266 - Cylinder #2 Contribution/Balance
P0401 - EGR system insufficient flow detected
P0404 - EGR valve position control performance or range fault
P1335 - EGR Position Sensor Minimum Stop Performance
P2199 - Intake Air Temperature 1/2 Correlation
P2290 - ICP Too Low
This code occurred during my test driving after clearing all the other codes.
P0606 - ECM/PCM Processor
The EGR valve is definitely bad and we are replacing that to take care of P0404 and P1335. I have not been able to detect any misfires on cylinder 2 while test driving. I have tried to catch what is happening with the scan data that is attached.
Shutting off during deceleration after snap throttle, but then it recovered and continued running.
Shutting off during deceleration after snap throttle, but then it recovered and continued running.
Trying to shut off but then recovered.
The engine wiring harness is very poor on this engine. We have a new engine harness and injector harness that will be installed along with cam and crank sensors to hopefully eliminate any electrical issues. We will likely be replacing injector 2 as well.
I had my oscilloscope with an amp clamp reading the amps on the IPR valve circuit during a start /stall condition to watch if the amps suddenly decreased when the ICP pressure was dropping to try to prove if there was any loose circuit/connection issues. But I found that the amps properly increase along with the duty cycle as the PCM was trying to command more ICP pressure once it detected the ICP pressure was falling.
According to the data captures it just appears to me like we are losing ICP pressure for some reason intermittently. The engine always starts hot other than when it wants to start/stall so I feel like we don’t have a high pressure oil leak. Is it possible for an air pocket to somehow get into the oil system and cause this? What about any bypass or drain back valves in the oil filter housing … would they cause an issue like this?
I wish I could get it to act up more consistently to try a few more tests.
I’d be glad for any thoughts you have or tests I should do.
Is your ICP matching desired? You can pressurize high pressure oil rail and check for leaks. How high is your ipr duty cycle getting? Is the oil filter cap stock? Some aftermarket caps can cause filter to be short and drainage issues. Was there any note of ipr screen being intact when old was being replaced or debris in screen under oil cooler. Has this truck been flashed back to stock. You
What brand are the IPR and ICP that were installed? What was the condition of the screen on the end of the IPR upon removal? And did someone make sure there weren’t any pieces left in the HPOP in the IPR hole? Do you have the fitting to perform an air test via the IPR port? HPOP ever replaced? Removed? If removed, were new seals installed? It appears that you do indeed have a high pressure
Hi David, With the P0606 I am wondering if the vehicle has a tuner on it? If it does, returning to stock is pretty important to test accurately. I would also check the low side oil pressure. These engines like to suck bearings through the screen and into the low pressure pump. I did not see any FICM codes but I would monitor the voltage to make sure the voltage is not dropping when the engine
Hi David: I agree with Mike about checking for a tuning. Some of the PIDs in your captures don't make sense (IPR, IPC, EOT, Fuel Pump). I also wouldn't replace anything until you know that the wiring has integrity. Considering the other PIDs, even the FICM voltages are suspect. I haven't used that tool so I don't know if you are being given bogus info. One thing that is helpful to keep in mind
If you are still suspecting high pressure oil problems there are updated oil tubes that run through the high pressure oil rail, and leaks also accure between the injector and oil rail. there may be a TSB on that , the updated pipes has a teflon ring that is put in place above the oring to prevent slicing under high pressure. I made an adapter to hook shop air through the ICP sensor port, and
I believe I remember an iatn post about the same thing. You will prob fix this with your wiring harness repair. On that truck it was slow to have FICM syc and ended up that the cam sensor wires at the connector, which had been replaced, were backwards. If I’m way off just disregard this.
From the data you supplied the IPR is increasing and the ICP drops or hold steady. This could be an IPR or base oil pressure issue. When the oil cooler is replaced most techs do not clean the area around the cooler sufficiently and the result is small debris getting into the high pressure oil resovoir under the cooler. If there is damage to the screen of the IPR I would remove the oil cooler
There's been lots of good information given already but I figured I'd throw in my two cents. I tend to suspect a wiring issue as well based upon your scan data. I'd be curious to know what the ICP voltage is doing when all this is happening. The pressure pid is useful but it is a processed value. The voltage pid will often tell the truth the pressure pid doesn't. The scan data especially on the
These 6.0 engines have been buttering my bread for several years. In viewing your scan data, I noticed the ICP pressure not following the desired ICP pressure. Where this "actual pressure" pid comes from is the feedback from the ICP sensor. If perchance this sensor lies, or there is a wiring problem in the circuit, the reported pressure will not be correct. This ICP voltage is also very
This engine always has plenty of power and accelerates well and actual and desired always match on a test drive. The only problem is intermittently it will stall while coming to a stop or at idle or start and stall and that is what I have been trying to capture. Fuel pressure tested good at 48 PSI. High pressure oil system passed an air leak test. This engine always starts hot other than when
EGR valve replacement is a waste of money unless you reinstall the removed cooler. It will change nothing in the symptom and will be eliminated when the tune is installed for the EGR delete. Concentrate on the loss of ICP either through monitoring voltage as previously stated or inspect the new IPR for debris,
Personally I'd suspect an electrical fault even moreso based on your description. Desired and actual match until your issue occurs and then they don't. As Albin suggested, monitor the voltage pid and an actual voltage reading during a test drive. Truth be told I'd probably scope ref, ground, and signal at the ICP sensor while monitoring the voltage pid just so you capture as much as possible
I have watched amperage draw of the IPR valve on my scope during the start/stall and according to that it does appear like the IPR valve is truly being commanded to higher duty cycle. My thought was that if I had a loose connection to the IPR valve during the event my amps would drop, but they seem to be climbing along with the duty cycle increasing.
Fuel pressure is NOT good at 48 PSI. That is not the problem, but I would suggest putting in the "blue spring kit" in the fuel pressure regulator. This will raise the pressure up above 60 PSI, if the electric pump is capable of making that pressure. This will add greatly to the life of the fuel injectors.
Having dealt with alot of "professionally" tuned 6.0s and 7.3s I am still curious if the truck has been confirmed to have the correct, factory software in it. I have even run into modified FICMs in a factory FICM housing. I've also run into this same issue when someone decides to pop in bigger injectors and a tune in their truck, then offloads it on someone else without giving them a heads up…
Your data suggests you have a high pressure leak or oil supply fault. This engine will produce 300 psi or higher at cranking RPM with IPR unplugged. In one data capture your cursors show RPM 1285 ICP 336 psi IPR 72 % Did you check the oil level? Cylinder #2 contribution code ever active? Maybe injector is faulty blowing off ICP at times.
Might I make a correction here? Unplugging the ICP defaults the pressure to 700PSI. This is a quick way to verify a misreporting ICP sensor, although the engine won't have much power.
I'm specifically referring to the IPR. It is still a fixed orifice unplugged. Pressure under 300 psi good cranking speed can NEVER be caused by a bad IPR. IPR only "Trims" pump output
My bad,,, you wrote "IPR" my brain said "ICP",,, ugg,,, getting old is NOT for the faint of heart.
Appears like the main problem was low oil level. The truck had just been in a few weeks ago when we did an oil change on it. So it was my mistake to assume the correct oil level since it was just done. I personally did the oil change and I remember double checking the level before it left. The engine has a lot of blowby ... so it is possible we are losing oil that way. I topped it off with 5
If this is "drinking" 5 quarts of oil in a short time make sur you check the turbo seals. If oil puddles in the CAC (charge air cooler) it can also cause a runaway. If the exhaust side is leaking it can cause a fire in the exhaust if it gets hot enough. 15 qts should be the fill quantity on these. Crankcase pressure is measured with an adapter in the oil fill that has a fixed orifice and a spot
There was some oil spray coming from between the two halves of the compressor side of the turbo. I am suspicious of the turbo seals causing this oil. The engine never ran away though. There was definitely oil laying in the CAC tubes ... just not sure yet whether from the turbo or the crankcase breather. We will be monitoring the oil level throughout the next weeks.